Show Notes

• Dr Torkil Faero Instagram 
• The Pulse Cure Book
• The Pulse Cure Lecture
• Garmin wearable device website
• Dr Pran Yoganathan Unstress Episode on Gastrointestinal health
• Continuous Glucose Monitoring device website
• Drew Harrisberg Unstress Episode on his experience with type 1 Diabetes and wearable device

Timestamps

• 00:00:00 – Introduction and acknowledgment of land
• 00:02:15 – Introduction of Dr. Torkil Faero
• 00:05:12 – Dr. Faero’s journey in medicine and personal health insights
• 00:10:21 – Discussion on heart rate variability (HRV) and health
• 00:14:16 – The importance of the vagus nerve
• 00:20:11 – How wearable devices monitor health
• 00:34:29 – Impact of diet and food intolerances on health
• 00:40:20 – Lifestyle changes and longevity
• 00:45:00 – The role of exercise in health and its impact on HRV
• 00:49:11 – Alcohol’s effects on stress and HRV
• 00:54:33 – Benefits of sunlight and cold water therapy
• 01:00:03 – The foundational role of sleep and breathing in health
• 01:06:11 – Choosing the right health monitoring devices
• 01:08:37 – Conclusion and final thoughts

Dr Torkil Faero: The Pulse Cure

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Unstress. My name is Doctor Ron Ehrlich. Now, before I start, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I’m recording this podcast. The Gadigal people of the Eora nation and pay my respects to their elders, past and present. Well, a recurring theme on this podcast, whether we’re talking about health or regenerative agriculture or the environment. And that is control what you can control. And one of the things you can control is your health. And how you do that is helped. If you can monitor how you’re going and how your body’s reacting to it. Well, that’s what this episode today is all about. My guest is Doctor Torkil Faero. Now Torkil is a general practitioner, an emergency physician, a documentary filmmaker, an author, and a photographer. In 1996, he was one of the first Norwegian medics to work for Doctors Without Borders when he worked in war torn Angola, and over the next 25 years as a freelance doctor. He’s worked all over Norway and had tens of thousands of consultations and gained a unique picture of the diseases that plagued us. Now he has learned something that many of our listeners will be very familiar with, and that is the cause of disease is most often found in the stressors and lifestyle places on our bodies. A theme. As I say, many of you regular listeners will be very familiar with, but Talk Inside, which he’s written about, is a real game changer for anybody interested in taking control of your health. And here’s a spoiler alert having the ability to read, to interpret, to understand your body’s reactions to various stressors, good and bad, is truly empowering. Torkil has written, and we talk about it today, The Pulse Cure, which examines the significance of heart rate variability and gives a practical and holistic plan to improve overall health. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Doctor Torkil Faero. Welcome to the show. Torkil.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:02:16] Thank you. Ron. Nice to be here.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:02:19] Build, a theme that we we’re going to be talking a lot of about a lot of really interesting things today. But the theme that I’m really interested in also is medical practitioners own health. You know, I think we were just talking before we came on the with we’d heard a rather disturbing statistic about medical practitioners health and burnout in Australia. And it’s something about a medical practitioner reaching a point in their own life where their health isn’t so great. They somehow have an epiphany and, their health improves. And I’m sure that has wonderful flow on effects to their patients. I wondered if you might just share your your story with us.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:03:03] Yes, my story will maybe be, you know, by proxy, because, the thing that made me change everything about my life, you know, ten years ago was not my own health. At that point, I have been in great health, doing pilgrimages, sailing around the world. But I hadn’t cared about my own health very much. And then my father died at 73. And I understood that I had to take a closer look at my health, because if I was only going to reach it to 73, I would not reach to do everything that I wanted to do in my life, you know? So, I took a look at myself in the mirror, and I saw that I started to look like my patients. You know, I was 20 kilos overweight, you know, £40 overweight. I did not exercise. I did not care about what I was eating. I did not care much about sleep, you know, working as a doctor of nightshift, you know, turning the day upside down, you know, every every morning, several times a week. And I understood that, you know, if I continue to live this way, I would contract the same lifestyle diseases as the ones that make my living out of, you know, and, I understood that since I then studied medicine, you know, 15 years before that, so much has happened, so much information, you know, about inflammation, about sleep, you know, everything that you know. Of course, I’ve seen your list of, of podcasts. I know that you know everything about this, but me and probably still most other doctors do not know this. So, so, anyway, I changed my lifestyle and started using five years ago. Started using wearables, you know, and heart rate variability to track my lifestyle changes, which has further improved it. So, I have always been in good health, but I feel now at 55, I feel a better health now than at 40 or 35, you know? So.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:05:15] It. Yeah, it’s just.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:05:16] A bit of my story here.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:05:17] Yeah. It’s a but it’s an interesting. It’s an interesting statement you make because he you were in good health in inverted commas. 20 kilos overweight. Certainly younger than you now would say at the age of 55 that you’re healthier than you were at 40 when you thought you were in good health.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:05:41] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And and particularly men, you know, we don’t we don’t care so much about our health. I think it’s a man thing. You know, when you when you work as a doctor over the years, you know, most men, they come because their wife told him to come, you know, so, and, and you’re talking about burnout situation. My, my luck as a doctor. I have been a free lance doctor from the start. So every day that I work, I have chosen to work. I often work very hard. I often work 24 over seven, in some community in Norway, maybe 2000 people, for example. And I, I’m on a call 24 seven, maybe for two weeks. I’ve even done four weeks, 24 seven. But I think that the part that I’m in control, I’ve chosen the days myself that has protected me from burnout, you know, so that then and then I’ve been, you know, working hard two weeks and I’ve gone off on a pilgrimage or I’ve gone off travelling or sailing or doing something fun. You know, I think the worst year of my life was when I was working a steady job every day for one year. That was hard, you know, even if it was, you know, from 8:00 until 4:00 and an easy job. But to be locked in that situation, not having freedom to to do whatever I wanted, that was much harder than working hard, you know? So I think, part of the reason why so many doctors get up in a burnout situation is that they’re kind of locked in this situation, and can’t get out, you know, of it and all the pressure, you know, 60 hours workweeks and, so that may have protected me from getting into a burnout situation.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:07:31] It’s interesting because, and I don’t think this is something unique to medical practitioners, but a lot of people put in a lot of hours, 40, 60 hours a week. And, and they wear their stress as almost a badge of honour. And, and I think there is a point of diminishing returns. I, I’m a dentist. My background is dentistry. Dentistry is very stressful, very bad for your health. All the statistics bear that out. But I learned very early on in my career that there was a point of diminishing return, where there was a sweet spot between time spent, earning a decent income, enjoying the work, doing good quality work, and being in good health. There was a sweet spot there somewhere.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:08:19] Yeah. And, absolutely. And the best performers, you know, there’s this big study from Anders Ericsson about the Berlin Philharmonic’s, you know, the violinists, to finding out who will do the solos and who will be in the orchestra. And the best people, they were better at deliberate rest also. They were better at deliberate practice, but also better at sleep and deliberate rest, you know, and that has been seen also, you know, across genres, you know, creative people, business people, athletes, you know, the ones that are better at rest and recovery. They are the best performers, you know, because you need the downtime. And I’m currently writing a book of rest. And it’s so important to that. To perform better, you have to rest better. That is so important. That’s also the creative time, you know? So it’s not just a downtime that is kind of wasted and you just waiting to get going again. This is the time when you get the good ideas and, and get time to reflect and to change directions. And so, but of course, if you are overworked and there is no room for changing directions or no room, if you found out that there’s something better to do, that you’re just locked in this situation, you can’t do anything, you know? Then you then you also stop reflecting about this so that I think that I’ve been living a free life, you know, for 25 years, or like so also even in my study has been protecting me and also making me then find this way that the other doctors have it, you know, writing the post cure about how to use variables. I’m the Prosecutor is still the only book in the world about how to use variables that like 70% of people have to track your health, which is just just, beyond my. How can that be? You know.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:10:21] Well, we want to talk about this because this book that you have written, The Pulse Cure, there’s something in the title would give, gives it away. It’s about heart, right. And most people would say, look, as long as my heart’s beating, I’m still alive. I’m doing all right. But there’s there’s a lot more to it than that. How does the heart rate reveal a bit more about our health? What can we learn from our heart rate?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:10:43] Yeah, our our heart rate. You know, response to everything in the body. You know, it’s like, it’s like a command centre. It it, it will take in signals, you know, through the vagus nerve and through all the nerve endings, whether it’s mental stress, physical stress, you know, physiological stress. It will be detected by the heart, and the heart will respond to it. And this response, you know, with the variables, you know, detecting the heart rate, you know, in milliseconds will show this difference is long before you notice, because we are not really good at noticing our own stress levels. It has throughout the evolution, been just in the way of our other senses. So if we were feeling too much of our stress, you know, then it would disturb our hearing, our eyesight, our taste of smell or taste. You know, everything you know, that you know is so important as a as a dentist. So it has been downplayed, you know, throughout evolution, we actually can’t hear the heart murmur and the sound of our lungs is outside of our hearing, you know, frequencies, you know, even that smart. You know, we can’t hear this. So it has been hidden from us and with the variables and with tracking the heart rate, we get a window into our autonomic nervous system. And the autonomic nervous system has been overlooked, you know, by medical science for many years, you know, maybe because we hadn’t really had anything to measure it until now. So the heart rate variability is the kind of the only window into the autonomic nervous system. And the fact that we can have these devices on our hands as people, as a patient taking the control of our own health, you know, taking the power from the doctor and from the healthcare system into your own hands, literally. It’s just, it major shift. It’s, it’s a game changer. You know, it’s, it’s a total shift in how we can look at health, you know, from from waiting until we get sick and then do something to preventing us from getting sick in the first place. Because heart rate variability has an association with almost all diseases. So, you can Google anything like I just did, you know, before we went on, I just googled, you know, dental conditions and heart rate variability. Of course, there’s a connection. And there’s a connection to almost anything, you know, prostate cancer. There’s a connection to it. All of the cancers, you know. And all immune diseases, everything. So it’s, it’s kind of, it’s kind of too good to be true thing, you know? Yep. But it is true. And the ancients knew, you know, the the Indian doctors, the Egyptian, you know, the Greek doctors. They knew that through measuring the pulse, you could tell so much about the patient. And of course, you can’t have a doctor checking your pulse around the clock. But these devices are that way, you know? And Cristiano Ronaldo, the soccer player, he uses the pen that I have on my right wrist. And he says it’s like having a doctor on your wrist, you know? And it’s really very true.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:14:16] Tell me, you know, heart rate variability. Again, there’s something in the name that gives it away. But I think when people say have a heart rate of 60 beats per minute, they just assume that that’s one beat every second. But it’s not like that, is it? Let’s just let’s go back to 101 heart rate variability, what’s good and what’s bad.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:14:41] Yeah. So you need a variation between heartbeats you know. And there will be a variation between heartbeats. And the better health and condition you’re in, the more variation between heartbeats. It is a sign that your body is at, in a restful state and that your vagus nerve is functioning and that, you are in this state of recovery, or we are capable of recovery. And let’s say that you have a heart, beat and, heart rate of 60. Then when you breathe in, your heart rate may be 80. And when you breathe out that your heart rate may be down to 55, you know, so there will be a variation from when you breathe in until you breathe out, you know, in the restful state. And that is because when you breathe in and there’s more oxygen in the lungs, the heart rate heart pushes through a little bit more. You know, it’s more effective when you breathe out and there’s less oxygen. The heart rate slows down a little bit, you know, to save some energy. Not much, of course, from second to second. But throughout the life, it’s estimated that you can save 350 million heartbeats if you have a good variation in the stressful state. So then your heart rate will beat more like a clock. So, and it’s almost like your organism interprets it of this organism is endangered. We need to use all available forces, even when you breathe out. And there’s less oxygen in in the lungs. You know, because this organism may not survive the next minute or two, you know? So regardless where the stress comes from, even if it’s mental, if it’s nutritional stress, is it physiological stress, then the heart rate will beat a lot more at a steady pace. And this difference between the variation is what the variables can pick up and tell you in the moment, whether you are stressed and to what degree. And of course, throughout the day and week and month and year, you know, so you can keep track of this while you are busy living your life.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:16:58] Another thing. You’ve mentioned another word. The name you mentioned is the vagus nerve. And, you know, we have many, many nerves in the body. But the vagus nerve is one people will hear a lot about. Just remind us, listener or tell our listener, why, why, why is the vagus nerve so important?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:17:16] Yeah, the vagus nerve is, one of the cranial nerves. It’s the most important one is, it’s number ten of the cranial nerves. It’s going out from our brain and into our body, innovating all the organs of our body. Including the heart, you know, kidneys, adrenal glands, intestines, all the organs, so it regulates, the activity. And you need a strong and good functioning vagus nerve for all of these organs to work properly. If your vagus nerve is not working properly. And there may be many reasons for that. All your organs will underperform, giving you symptoms in the different organs are problem, as am I said, doctors have been that when we discover one problem in one organ, you know, we start medicating that organ. You know, that may have side effects to all the other organs, you know? Yeah. And, instead of improving the vagus nerve, you know, to make this organ better and all the other organs better, you know, because, of course, as a doctor, you see that? Once you get one disease in one organ, the other one, the other ones are just almost waiting to appear, you know? So, with a good vagus nerve, then all your organs are working better. And and this and and you can see the effect of this in heart rate variability. So heart rate variability is direct measure of the state of your vagus nerve. Among other things, but also the state of your vagus nerve.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:19:03] I mean, as I’ve said often on this program, toggle the, your description of treating one organ problem at a time is a great economic model. Driving huge profits for the surgical industry just doesn’t happen to be a very good health model. But coming back to the vagus nerve, another term that people will hear about is improving vagal tone.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:19:29] Yeah.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:19:30] Talk a little bit about that. So Megan tone.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:19:34] Yeah. So vagal tone kind of is heart rate variability. So when your vagal tone is working, when you’re doing breathing exercises, when you’re doing cold water immersions, when you’re calming down with meditation or whatever, visualising a calm place when you, when you get into the parasympathetic state, that is the kind of the vagal tone. You know, so, so the parasympathetic state, the recovery state, the power of your vagus nerve, you know, to make sure that your organs are recovering. That is what I would say is vagal tone. Yeah.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:20:11] Now, I know you’ve written and talked about and you’ve already mentioned a few, smartwatch or devices and there are many I mean you mentioned Woohp which double OPI I mean people would be familiar with the Apple Watch the Fitbit the Garmin the aura ring I have the aura ring here as well I’ve tried a lot of these devices. Tell us about how I mean what they can tell us. How can they guide our stress balance.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:20:38] Yeah they can guide our stress balance, through measuring the heart rate variability throughout the day, you know, and measuring the sleep quality and so on. And they can detect things that you would not have understood. For example, you know, yesterday I had some sausages, you know, on the on the barbecue here and just having a few taste of it, I understood that. Oh, this is quite spicy, you know, and I know that I react strongly to chilli. You know, it’s not that food intolerance is not an allergy, but I can see from a heart rate variability that it is almost like having a beer or drinking alcohol. So I just tasted it and I looked at the description of the ingredients. You know, it didn’t say anything about chilli. It just said spice, you know? But today, this morning, it’s obvious that there was chilli in this spice, because my heart rate variability was like 30, where it’s usually 45. Okay. With a Garmin watch, I can go back and see exactly. It was the hours after the meal. That was the stressful time with the ordering though. I can only see in the morning, you know, the that it were, it was lower. I couldn’t see exactly when the problem was. But the Garmin watch, you know, the it there you can see exactly, when the problem was and how much of a problem. So that is just to explain how different devices can tell you different things. You know, they all measure heart rate variability, but it’s the way that they presented to you in the apps that is the most important thing. And then it depends which one to choose. You know that that depends. How much attention do you want to pay to it. You know, do you want to have the numbers all the time available or would that disturb you or be not what you want, you know, is too much for you? Or do you want to read out in the morning and some more, some details and and that’s enough, you know, because this morning then I would know from the low heart rate variability that I’m not well recovered. You know, I should not do the the hard exercise today or work overtime or, or put some new appointments. You know, I should, you know, push back a little bit and allow my body to recover better today because of the chilli. You know, something that I would never have understood, you know, do waking up in the morning and feeling a bit more sluggish, you know, that that would have a connection to the meal that I had almost done, you know, 12 hours earlier would not even be in my mind, you know. Yeah. So I wouldn’t even start looking for a reason, you know, I would just wake up and feel so and so and and just. Okay. You wouldn’t, understand why, you know, so, so these devices can help you to identify stressors that are off your radar, and most stressors are off your radar, you know?

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:23:53] Yes. No. Well, I think that is a really great example. You know, something is innocuous as a as a sausage that you white that was spicy to be able to assess your body’s response to it. This raises a very interesting issue that I actually hadn’t really thought of. And that was the availability of the of the data there. And then in response to the stress or because, the aura ring, as you mentioned, gives you an HIV score in the morning, but that’s it. Whereas what? Sorry, can you give us some ideas of devices? Is that you find most useful. You’ve mentioned the woop and the garment, but give us some other give us some advice about how one should choose, because it’s a it’s an overwhelming choice, isn’t it? Yeah.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:24:41] Yeah. I think by far Garmin is the best choice. You know, it’s also the it’s also the cheapest choice. Or they have a range of models from like I don’t know, the Australian dollar, but with the US dollar it would be probably from $150, which should be, you know, available to most people and probably up to ten times that amount, you know, for the very best ones. But but the cheapest one said they do like 80% of what you can get out of the best ones. So you’re already at a good place. So, that’s by far the best ones. And it’s not because of Garmin itself, but but because they have been smart enough to buy the algorithm. So the Finnish company First Beat and First Beat have been doing physiological measurements for more than 20 years, you know, and, have just implemented their system that they have used traditionally an EKG monitors and just put it into the Garmin watches. And I used a similar ECG monitor for two years before I even understood that Garmin had the system. And the system of Garmin is, it’s called body battery system. So you have kind of a body battery. So today, this morning my body battery was low. It was just above 50. So kind of my it’s like you have to charge your your car. You know, if you have an electric car and it hasn’t really charged much, it says with a bad connection or so. So while usually my body battery would be 80 or more, if I’m well-rested. And of course, this sounds like is something that Walt Disney would have invented, right. So it sounds too good to be true, but I had been using these, EKG monitors for two years. And then when I understood that Garmin had the system, you know, I just used them at the same time and saw that there are insignificant differences between them, you know? So. So there is it’s good enough, you know, by phone. Otherwise I would have thought, okay, this is just a gimmick. It’s not it can’t be true. Yeah. But they having used the usage monitor for so long and having then to interpret everything myself for two years, I understood that okay, they the system of body battery that Garmin has is, it’s, it’s the best one. But then of course, you can use the ordering, you know, it will be more like you are going to the shop and you do a big shopping. You get the total, but you don’t see the items, so you don’t know whether eggs or meat is expensive. Is it alcohol or water? Expensive? You don’t know. You know. So both the band and aura, will be like that. So, so good. The, the main reason why I used Garmin for the first year book, and we had 200 people using the Garmin watch, you know, as a test group. In the, in the book. That is because you see this, different items and you are able to detect the hidden stressors that will only appear once you have this detailed overview of when something stresses you and how much or when something distresses you and how much. Yeah.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:27:58] So quantifying HIV on the gum and gives you a score. You mentioned your score was 30. It should have been 50. What is the what is the scale and what is what for you as an example is good and what is bad.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:28:13] Yeah. Yeah. The the heart rate variability will also depend on your age. So a 25 year old well trained person, you know, may have 150 or even up to 200. And heart rate variability, a huge variation between heartbeats on the in-breath and outbreath. But this will go down very steeply until you’re 40 years old. So my variation in HIV as a 55 year old would be in that range, you know? So so for me, like 30 is a very low heart rate variability. For me, it will be after I’ve had some chilly or after I’ve had some alcohol. If I have a good day, I’m well rested. The optimal HIV for me, maybe 55. That would be my maximum. Maybe when I was 25, you know, it would have been 100. Yeah. So, so it will and it will go down by age, you know, reflecting, of course, our body’s capability of recovery. So the best athletes, you know, even even if there are millions of dollars to be made and fame and fortune and glory, you know, once you’re past 40, almost forget about it. It’s only a few individuals that are capable of maintaining a good endurance and strength level for a competitive sport, you know, after, after 40. And so, our body is very forgiving until you’re 40, you know, and after that, you have to make sure you recover yourself, you know, you have to do the work until then. Your body is so good it you can recover from anything, you know. And all this variability reflects that.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:30:03] This was your own experience. If we go back to the beginning of our conversation, how you described yourself as the at the age of 40 as being in good, good health, because you could get away with it.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:30:16] Yeah, yeah. And and it’s not necessarily. Well, you know, I had no symptoms. You know, I’ve never been having any chronic disease or symptoms over time or so. You know, I have some, you know, like crucial ligament ruptures and so such. But but it’s not I think it’s not necessarily good not to have symptoms because you can be doing harm to your body, you know, that will only be showing, you know, after 30 or 40 years if you have symptoms, you know, like brain fog, you know, like, burnout symptoms, stomach problems. That may be good, you know, because you may be forced to do better choices, you know, before something more serious appears. So I can see that in many of my patients, particularly male patients, that it’s there have been well, for all their life, they have never felt anything, you know, and then suddenly, you know, they get their cancer or heart disease or, or something, you know. Well, while women more often will develop symptoms earlier on, you know, that they have to take into consideration.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:31:23] But a lot of these health problems, the diagnosis is not like a light switch. Yesterday you were perfectly healthy, and today you have a diagnosis of cancer. This is a process. And fortunately, as you mentioned, a lot is subclinical or no symptoms associated coming back to your sausage with your chilli. I’m intrigued to know how quickly after consuming that particular food, which you didn’t have an allergy for, but you didn’t didn’t agree with you. How soon after consuming that food did you know that quite.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:32:01] Quite fast that that will be a matter of minutes of it. Matter of minutes, you know, so, and and interestingly enough, I was talking about. Is on a podcast earlier this week, and one and the podcaster told me that there was one Doctor Coker, suspicious, named. But but there was one Doctor Coker in the 50s that, and he was one of the leading immunologists, one of a kind of the, the the one who coined the idea atopic, you know, for eczema and so on. And he said that he could use the pulse, the pulse test, to identify whether people were tolerant for certain foods, and then they would be in a restful state eating only that ingredient. Then within four minutes, you know, or just a few minutes, if the heartbeat went up by four beats, then that would be a sign of intolerance. And, I’m not sure exactly. I said for that I was for beats, but I’m not sure, for how long, but it was not a long time, and the body reacts quite fast to it. And one of the main advantages, you know, I get, you know, on Instagram, so many people reach out to me because this book has been a huge success in Norway. It’s been on the bestseller list for a year and a half. And, and then, one of the most important things is that so many people find out that they have food intolerances. Yes. So they will do everything in the post cure. You know, the the book is full of advice on what to do to, to manage your stress levels. And when they have done everything and it’s still a lot of stress. Then I advise them to go and check out, you know, for food intolerances and this almost everybody will find some and they will they may have 4 or 5 different ones, something that you would never be able to detect it also with detective work, you know, and so, you need to go and check it out at a proper lab, you know, that are capable of it. But that has been so important. And many people say that once they start changing their diet, you know, symptoms that they had for like, 30 years falls away. Fibromyalgia, you know, joint pain, stomach pains, brain fog, you know, migraines, you know, it. It just disappears. Because the problem has been then all the time that you have been eating food that you can’t really tolerate.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:29] And and this is I can see I mean, nutrition has been a very interesting part of my journey. And, and I can see this is a real game changer because establishing food intolerances is often so subtle and difficult. And most doctors will just dismiss, look, if you’ve just if you’ve eaten something and you’ve broken out in a rash, sure you’re allergic to it, but otherwise no problem. And that’s simply not true.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:34:56] No. Yeah, yeah. And it’s visible in the, in the heartbeat, immediate. And of course, because the intestines are the whole gastrointestinal tract, this is such, vulnerable thing, you know, it’s like metres. I don’t know how many metres, but it’s probably like 8 or 10m. Oh, one cell difference between the contents of your intestines and stomach into your bloodstream. You know, 70% of the immune system is is organised around your intestines, you know, because that’s where the war is, you know, and of course, when you start eating things that you’re not supposed to eat, I’m not talking about food intolerances, but ultra processed food, you know, containing emulsifiers and, and taste enhancers and, and what have you as things that we are not really supposed to eat. You know, you’re kind of making a wound, you know, inside your intestines, producing leaky gut, you know, and, producing, a state of inflammation, that that affects all that, all your body.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:36:05] I remember asking the gastroenterologist whether he how he would respond to this is Doctor Prana and how he would respond to the gut is the second brain. And, he said he disagreed. He he thought the gut was the first brain.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:36:22] Yeah.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:36:22] So, so so I thought, you know, I thought that was very good. Listen, you I know you talk about several strategies, in fact, eight strategies that give us an extra 24 years of life. Now, that’s a catchy phrase that certainly caught my attention. I wondered if we might deal with a couple of those strategies for giving you.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:36:44] These strategies are from a The big American study on veterans in from the military. 700,000 veterans followed over 11 years, showing that if you do the good lifestyle strategies from your 40, you will live 24 years longer than the ones who don’t use these strategies. And the good thing is that if. You start at 60. There’s 18 years to to gain extra years to gain. And this is also my impression as a as a doctor. I’ve had more than 100,000 consultations. I’ve seen more than 50,000 different people because I’ve been working as a freelancer, as a locum doctor, as you maybe you would say in Australia, subsidy, 50,000 different people. And, and this is also a number that I can recognise. I can see that people who are living a good lifestyle will living very much longer and two decades longer. Yes, absolutely. That that is what I see every day. And luckily for me, you know, this it’s, lifestyle strategies. Seven of them are exactly the same as I described in the post cure. It’s the same strategies that I focus on. And, and most people focus on when it comes to lifestyle. The good thing is that you can these lifestyles will be seen in heart rate variability. So whatever is good for you or bad for you will be detected in heart rate variability. And these strategies is, you know from the American study this a good sleep being able to to de-stress or have a control of your stress levels avoiding excessive alcohol. And, exercising. And then, nicotine, you know, stay away from nicotine, tobacco smoking and, also the wonder and having good relations in relationships. And one that I don’t have in my book, the one that is, opioids to stay away from opioids. And of course in the US that’s a much larger crisis, you know, than, than in Norway. But I can also say that that is probably a bit overlooked also because, I think the opioids, I can see that many people using opioids. There are they have the same inflammation, inflamed bodies, you know, so I can see that there’s a connection there. In all these different things, you know, whether it’s a cause or consequence or both. So you can say that HIV is associated with all these different diseases and symptoms and lifestyles, but whether it’s that cause or consequence that is often a bit hard to distinguish, but it’s often on both sides of it, you know, so like a dental condition, you know, if you have an inflamed body from whatever reason or you’re stressed, you are much more prone to get a dental condition. When you get the dental condition, your HIV will be worse, you know, so it will be kind of a downward spiral. I think so. The HIV effect will be on the both on the cause and consequent side of the disease.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:40:20] You talk about opioids and the opioids. I mean, it’s not just heroin. I mean, it’s something as simple as codeine is an opioid.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:40:29] Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:40:31] So and, and I know, eating obviously diet is an important one. Watching and I know intermittent fasting has become very popular. Stuff like that. I’m just interested to get your, view of what and when, what and when should I, should we eat? And from a heart rate variability perspective.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:40:53] Yeah. And, that is so good because and that was a surprise to me the first time. Because in the start, you know, I had to find out all these things from myself. So the first time I was working in a very nice place on the west coast of Norway, and they gave me dinner every day from the nursing home. And the dinner was so good, you know, that they cooked it themselves there. And, I used to gain two kilos every week I worked there. So I thought, you know, I get to go on like this, you know, I’ll get, fat again. And then I started. Okay, what can I do? Okay, I can skip breakfast. You know? I can do that, you know? Then I can keep eating the dinner. Dinner and dessert. And then, of course, I was not used to that, so I thought that in, in the morning, I was it felt, you know, hard, you know, not eating. And I was expecting to see a lot of stress then on my monitor. But no, it was total calm, you know, until I was eating. So then I discovered. Wow. Fasting is is so restorative for your. For your system. You know, even though you feel hungry and you feel, you know, uncomfortable and hungry. So, and, even more in the evening, I saw that if I had a late meal, that would affect the stress levels into the night. So what I found myself and so many other people find as well, is that an eating window of eight hours is optimal. Somewhere around that, maybe eight. Maybe some people ten hours. But at least I think not more than ten hours. And this will that, and it will motivate you to keep that, time window when you see it on your watch, on your Garmin watch, you would not see this on your ordering, you know, but on your Garmin watch you would see this effect. And that’s motivating because it’s a bit hard, particularly in the beginning. After a while, you know, I don’t feel hungry anymore. I used to feel a lot more hungry when I was eating on and off, you know, from the early morning until the late evening. You know, I had no clue. And most doctors, probably most doctors, actually advise people to eat, you know, throughout the day. You know, like you eat every three hours, you know, or so throughout the day. So, to keep us.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:43:26] To keep the glucose level steady.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:43:29] Yeah. And that. Well, if somebody would say that, then I know that they have not used CGM, you know, because when you use the CGM and, and, and your fasting, you see that the blood glucose is as a flat line, you know, it’s totally flat. Your body is so capable of keeping the blood sugar, on track once you don’t feed it with fast carbohydrates and, and all that. So, so, so, so anyway, so, so a feeding window, 8 to 10 hours. That’s one of the strategies in the, in the posture. Then this one that can make up for a lot of bad food. So, even if you eat junk food, you can get away from the symptoms. Just restricting this feeding window and letting your intestines and cells in your intestinal tract have this time to recover, because it’s estimated that 10% of the cells in our gastrointestinal tract, will have to be replaced or repaired every day. It’s one of the cells that have the fastest turnover of our body. You know, one third of your faeces are, discarded cells, you know? So, so it’s a it’s quite massive. So if you don’t allow your intestines the tight enough time for recovery, you will be sick. You know, your intestines will underperform, giving you inflammation and problems in your body.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:45:00] Now, just for our listener who may have missed it, the CGM refers to the continuous glucose monitor, which is a little device that plugs into your literally plugs into your arm and measures your glucose. I mean, I think that that in itself is a very interesting thing to do. Well, maybe not permanently, but although type one diabetics do, what do you think of that continuous glucose monitoring?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:45:26] I think absolutely everybody should use it for a month or two.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:45:31] Yes.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:45:32] They should use it typically, one CGM will last for 14 days. You know, you put it into your, your the back of your arm. It does not it’s not painful. So, maybe for two weeks, you know, don’t change anything. Just eat just as you would normally. And then, most people would identify that there will be certain foods, you know, that will give you big, spicy spikes in your blood sugar. The problem is maybe. Well, the problem for your cells, you know, that’s a spike, you know, but the problem that you will feel is that when the spike goes down, because your body will overshoot with insulin and you will get a low blood sugar, which you will only get a low blood sugar because it was high earlier. So you will feel you will feel bad, you know, when you get the low blood sugar and then you will think that, okay, I need a new kick from sugar, you know, to get up again and then you will be in this rollercoaster the whole day. So, so then two weeks of just, eating and drinking normally and then maybe two weeks or maybe even even need a month to try to level out the blood sugar and, find strategies for doing that. You know, the the glucose goddess on Instagram, she has written the glucose revolution. That’s a really good book. On how to how to balance your blood sugar.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:47:00] And I think it’s fair to say that the lower your blood sugar is, or the steadier it is, the the healthier you will be. It’s it’s a bad indicator for every disease.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:47:10] Absolutely. And the problem for us doctors, or to the shame of us doctors, is that we have been waiting until people get the diagnosis of diabetes. You know, we are waiting till the age to be a SNC. It’s like 6.2 or so, before we start treating it. But there will be problems in your health already from a, I don’t know if you have the same scale in in Australia, but from 5.3. So we are waiting and we are watching people get worse and worse and then we start treating them. But in this whole period you know it. They will have insulin resistance. And with insulin resistance their cells will underperform because of bad metabolism of glucose. So there will be too much glucose in the blood where you don’t want it. You know, it’s sticky. It, gives you problems. And there will be not enough of it inside the cells where it’s useful. So, insulin resistance is, is one of the basis of inflammation and one of the the reasons for the for the diseases, you know, in all organs. So, so we need to stop that, process of getting diabetes long before we are doing it now. And yeah, you were mentioning earlier how the healthcare system works and there’s too much money in sick people, you know, in chronically sick people that so much money into that business. And one of the good things about these devices is that there is money to be made, you know, and keeping people from getting sick. So, so Garmin or, you know, Samsung, all this, industry are making money keeping you healthy, you know, so and that’s a good thing, you know? Yeah. So, so.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:49:03] Yeah, the only, I think the only loser in people being healthier, is the pharmaceutical industry. And as far as I can concerned.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:49:11] It’s a wee bit shaking.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:49:13] They should be. They should be, which is what this podcast is all about and what your book is all about. And that’s what brings us together. Another one is, I mean, you mentioned alcohol and she let’s face it, alcohol is ubiquitous. It certainly is in Australia. I’m sure it is in Norway as well. You know, it’s a it’s a little bit I mean, how when you coming back to your sausage and your spice, when Taco has a glass of beer and just a glass of beer, how does your job respond to that? Or can you get away with 1 or 2? What what’s what did you actually tell you?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:49:49] Yeah. I can’t get away with anything. Yeah. So even these kind of light beers, you know, with 2.5% alcohol, it will also show. And according to Woohp you know they gather information from the users. that is what that is a downside. You know from Garmin and Aura. They don’t don’t do that or do it. So to some extent. But Woohp really uses it and really uses it in research also. So Woohp can tell you that alcohol is by far the worst stressor from your system. And I did not know that. You know that’s one I’ve done everything wrong in you know from the strategies in the post. Yeah. So I used to drink a couple of glasses of wine every day. It I was even endorsed you know, by doctors. You know, that that was a good thing. Two glasses of wine for men and one for women. You know, that was. And I said, thanks a lot, you know, and I even thought that it would de-stress me, you know, because after a hard day at work, with children and family life and so on, it was felt really good to relax with a couple of glasses of wine in the end of the day. And what I didn’t notice then was how bad I felt in the morning. You know, I would just think, you know, it’s is the business that is the problem. But the problem was I were, no, no. Was the alcohol, because that’s the worst thing, you know? And it really destroys your sleep. So, you can see the calming effect of alcohol. I can see that also on the Garmin watch, that, couple of hours after I’ve been having a couple of drinks, it will calm me down. You know, I will get into the parasympathetic mode, but then I go to sleep, and during the night, it can be as stressful as if I’m having a lecture for 200 people. It can be the same effect on my heart rate variability, actually. So when I then wake up and feel sluggish, it’s not the feeling. It’s just, the result of your body having worked, you know, full time, trying to detoxify the alcohol throughout the night. So, and and I. It’s been one of the big game changers in Norway, too, that when you see the effect, you know it’s so much more motivating to to make the good choice. And both in the aspect that of that you are choosing whether or not to drink alcohol. But you can also see that if you then choose to drink alcohol, you know it. Maybe it’s a wedding, maybe it’s a birthday, maybe it’s an occasion that you think that, okay, I will have expenses of wine. It’s worth it. Then. You know, the day after. Okay, you you you should relax more the day after. Or it can take five days. According to work, you will not be fully recovered from about of drinking until five days afterwards. So.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:41] And when we say a bout of drinking, how little does one have to drink to have to need five days to recover?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:52:47] And then I think then I think you would probably be up to 3 or 4 drinks, you know.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:52] To and you mentioned that, that the Woop identifies or can give you the feedback on the alcohol, but the Garmin can too. I mean.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:53:01] Yeah, yeah, the Garmin group from the roof band every morning you get, a survey of what you have been doing the day before, you know, so you, you will check off if you have been drinking, if you have been exercising, if you have been doing cold water therapy and and so on. And so you will know what you have been doing. And they are using that information for research, and so on. Garmin has no clue of what you have been doing. You’re not giving them any information on on what you are doing.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:53:33] Now. You mentioned cold water therapy. And I don’t think this is a really interesting thing that, hey, it doesn’t get much easier than turning on a cold tap on your on your shower. Tell us a little bit about the impact of cold water therapy on HIV.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:53:49] Yeah. So if you have been eating chilli or having had alcohol, I think that the smartest thing you can do is having a cold shower or go into the cold water. Yeah, yeah, because that will get your inflammation down. So, there will be inflammation in your body. There will be circulating cytokines, you know, as a sign of inflammation after drinking, you know, for example. And then if you go into the cold, take an extra long, cold shower or go into, it doesn’t really need to be very cold water. So 20 degrees, you know, would be enough. You just need to stay longer in in those 20 degrees for water, that is Celsius. You use Celsius, don’t you? In. Yes.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:54:33] With Celsius. Yeah.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:54:34] So in so, in, Fahrenheit, I would probably be 66 to 60 to 63°F, I think. So, you just need to stay longer time. So, and that will, distress you. So that was also a surprise to me that the effect of cold water. So, absolutely, the, the two main strategies to de-stress your systems and to kind of put on the brakes of your parasympathetic system that is breathing slowly and cold. Those are two main strategies. And of those maybe the most effective ones is the cold. So we don’t really know why. You know, the people, speculate or the experts, that it may be, you know, the ancient sign that you are in because it used to be cold in the night, even in Africa. Now, where we come from, originally it was cold in the night. So, it may be an really ancient sign that you are in the restful state. It is, in the cold situation that your body recovers. Of course, the heart rate also goes down because of the cold to to to, not lose the heat, you know, to. So the typical is that, on the opposite side, one of the worst stressors is heat. So when you are too hot, you know, and probably in Australia, there’s, a lot of times where it will be too hot. Then your body’s really struggling. We cannot tolerate much heat. You know, our body. We will get into a heat stroke. We can even die, you know, like Michael mostly did from from the heat. And we we cannot tolerate maybe more than 41 degrees. You know, our normal body temperature is 37. And then, like, from 40.5 degrees, you know, if you are not in a fever state, you know, it can be really dangerous. But the downside it’s not. So you just have more to go down. The downside you have more to go. So it kind of the body really struggles hard to lose the heat. If it’s hot it’s increasing. The heart rate is dilating the the. Referral blood vessels, trying to sweat, to to lose heat very desperately. And this is very stressful. So in my findings, I find that if the temperature outside temperature is up to 28 degrees, it’s okay. It doesn’t really stress me so much. If it goes from 28 to 30 to 32 to 35 degrees, that is really hard. I can there’s no way to get into a parasympathetic mode when there’s like 32 degrees outside, you know. So.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:57:30] What do you what do you think of the infrared sauna as though. How’s that affect our parasympathetic. What is what’s the what’s the how does the infrared sauna fit into that model?

Dr Torkil Faero [00:57:42] Yeah. The it will be stressful, you know, to be in the from the heat of the infrared sauna. So I use, infrared light, you know, from a panel. Not for the sauna. And I think, I’m just starting to look into it. I will I will write one book now is on rest and the next book that is already booked. You know, it’s, it’s on this sun, sunlight and then and, photo, you know, treatment, you know, so, I’m looking forward to look into that because I think there’s so much to gain there as well from from the energy from the sun and from certain light frequencies. So but I don’t know it at this point. I don’t know enough about, infrared saunas to, to say anything in conclusive to read.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:58:32] You were using red light white.

Dr Torkil Faero [00:58:34] Yeah. Yeah. Because it’s, it’s, it seems it’s very good for the mitochondria that are mitochondria, you know, is the basis. So you need good mitochondria, you need good cells, you know. Of course, again, mitochondrial dysfunction is measurable in heart rate variability. You know, again, so so and of course we need the light. I don’t know how how it ended up that we that we are advised from doctors to stay out of the sunshine. You know, it’s just just just a ridiculous idea that, that, that it’s hard to believe how it got that way, but but it seems that’s and I listened also to your to your podcast with a with, grant was it the expert on the sun? And there’s so much evidence now that sunshine is so vital for us. There’s a big study in Sweden for 30,000 different people showing that. The sun. The getting enough sun is or it is sailed away. If you are not getting enough sun, sun? Then it’s as dangerous as smoking. So the people who are smoking and getting a lot of sun, and they live longer and are healthier than this, then the ones who are not smoking and not sitting in the sun.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:00:03] So it’s a what a statement. What a.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:00:06] Step.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:00:07] Yeah. And I mean, this is something this is another theme, as you’ve mentioned, that we’re we’re exploring on the podcast. And you know, I used to think sleeping and breathing were foundational. Now I realise our relationship with the sun and light is even more foundational. Absolutely. In order to understand the public health advice and the illogical nature of it, I can only use two words and that is business model because it just is so nonsensical to be.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:00:38] Submissive in the middle. So sunscreen. Yeah. So sunscreen. You know, there’s so much, so much money. You know, the sunscreen companies, you know, they’re also a lot of places sponsor, sponsor the, the cancer.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:00:51] Has.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:00:53] Societies. And of course, again, sunshine is visible in heart rate variability. So, so, I just, recently and I can see that there’s a steep rise in my heart rate variability. We went sailing in Seychelles, and the heart rate variability go goes up, you know, by maybe 70 numbers, which is, you know, maybe from, from an average of 37, maybe up to an average of 45, you know, and you can really feel that.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:01:24] Well, I think most people would say how good they feel when they’ve been out in the sun. And there’s a, there’s a physiological reason for that exercise is another one because a lot of people think, you know, the harder you do the better you know, the better it is. What is what is exercise and how does heart rate variability and exercise fit together.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:01:44] Yeah that’s it of course also closely together. And so you need to exercise and you need to exercise at a level that does not give you too much recovery time. And that can be hard to estimate. So that is also an advantage. So the Garmin watches they will give you a recovery time after your exercise. And I think they’re, they’re very accurate because your fitness level is so important to have a good fitness level is is vital. Is the VO2 max that you will get from the Garmin watch is also, the VO2 max is such an important metric for longevity and and health.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:02:27] So remind us remind our listener about VO2 max.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:02:31] So VO2 max is an. It’s an estimate of how well your cells are metabolising oxygen. So the higher number the better your cells are at using oxygen to produce energy. So there’s it’s entire indirect measures of your the effectiveness of your mitochondria. And I can see that if you are in the poor shape and you may have a VO2 max of down to 26, you know, then your body has to work, you know, in overdrive just for normal daily activities. You know, you’re overtaxing yourself just being, you know, and then once you start exercising, then your VO2 max will go higher, you know? So, if your level is from like, 35, 40, you know, 45, I am 45. Then your body is working, you know, with extra capacity, you know, in the daily life, you know, and these things are visible in the heart rate variability. But the problem is that if you are starting from a low fitness level, if you go to max maybe of, of 30 or so, then you can tolerate almost no exercise. You know, one normal. If you do jogging for 20 minutes, you’ll be exhausted and you will need maybe four days to recover. You know, it will create the state of inflammation. You will feel sick, you will be motivated, and you will not do it again, you know? So you have to start really carefully. If you’re starting from a low point, from a from a poor level of exercise, you have to start really, really carefully. And, I think the best thing is to have a zone two training, that you’ve probably heard of a zone two.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:04:29] Just for.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:04:30] Medical first. Yeah. For a typical person, you know, that would have, maximum heart rate of 170. 180. Then your zone two would be maybe 130 to 140. And heart rate she is should stay below that, you know. And, and most athletes will most of the athletes in the Olympics right now are training 80% of their training is in zone two. So they are not pushing out much every time, even the winners of tour de France and so on, they will. They have most of their training at this low heart rate level. It will keep them below the threshold of lactate, because you can see that once you get over the threshold of lactate, then your recovery time, you know, really goes up, you know. So that is why they try to stay below this lactate level, producing intensity, to be able to train more, without the need for so much recovery time.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:05:32] And the Garmin device or device can give you the VO2 max.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:05:36] Yeah. Yeah. And I tested it. So at least for me, I did it, test, you know, with, on the treadmill, with, professional equipment. And it was accurate for me. So. And I can see it also because, you know, so many people reach out to me and I can see that it’s a good estimate. I’m never I rarely surprised when I see the ultra max compared to when I see the person in front of me.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:06:00] So I’m guessing I was going to ask you which one you recommend, and I’m getting the message that the Garmin would be that that device. Is that is that fair to say?

Dr Torkil Faero [01:06:11] Yeah. Yeah yeah. Right now. At the moment, yeah. By far it’s, it’s it’s a league of its own. But maybe now I think that, Samsung is coming out with the new watch and the Galaxy Ring. So I have the impression that Samsung is, is brewing on something powerful. But, but for the moment. And Garmin’s by far the best choice also, money wise.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:06:39] And now just finally and I would just want to finish up with one question, because taking a step back from your role as medical practitioners and author, you know, because we are all on a health journey together, through this modern world as individuals. What do you think the biggest challenge is for us as individuals on that journey?

Dr Torkil Faero [01:07:01] That that is, manifold and all that. So that is, to try to. To get the totality of our physiology in order. You know, the stress levels, the exercise, the food, the sleep, the rest. You know, the alcohol to try to balance all these different variables, you know, because. The world is putting so much stress on us, and if we are not making sure that we are resilient and and strong, you know, we’re losing. You know, we are losing lives. We are losing life. Quality. So we just have to do some effort every day on these different, strategies and make sure that we are we’re strong enough to live our life to the fullest as long as we can. So it’s. I think it’s just it’s not one thing, but it’s a thing to be aware that we can do so much. We can take charge of our own health, you know? We don’t have to wait until we get sick and leave a responsibility to the doctor, which has been the strategy. Of course, you know, for my study and for my career until, until now, the rarest question I get in the doctor’s office is, what can I do? You know, it’s all, what can you do for me? You know? But but but that is not a good strategy. You know, you you have to take the responsibility yourself to stay healthy. But that may be the conclusion. You you responsible for your health.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:08:37] Well, well, that is a great note for us to finish on. And thank you so much for joining us today. I’ve been so looking forward to talking to you. I’m going to be looking forward to getting stuck into your book, The Pulse. Q will have links to it and your website, and I look forward to you coming back and telling us about the book on rest and the book on sunlight. So thank you so much.

Dr Torkil Faero [01:08:57] So thank you so much for having me on. And, yeah. And if people want to learn more, you know, they can go to the polls secure.com. There’s a lecture there and, there are some blog there and so on. Or they can, look me up on Instagram on Doctor Tocqueville.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [01:09:14] So thank you. Well, heart rate variability, as we, outlined, is the ability of your heart to, as the name gives away your ability of your heart rate to vary by millisecond, showing that you are constantly, responding to the stresses of life. But what is such a game changer here and why? I love this conversation and and and message is that with devices and his recommending the Garmin device which gives you real time each of the readings and in the Garmin particular watch, it’s, it’s expressed as stress levels. So, you know, on a scale of 0 to 100. So when your stress level is 0 to 25, you are really relaxed. In fact, you’re probably asleep when you’re 25 to 50, low when you’re 50 to, 75. That’s a moderate level of stress. And when you’re over 75, that’s a high level of stress. And recording that in real time allows you to really see how you respond, how your body’s responding, and what it really is is a measure of, heart rate variability and how your body’s coping with stressors. And a good example is alcohol, which Turkle describes in his book as liquid stress. Well, when on one day your stress level is in the 20s or low 30s, and then after 2 or 3 glasses of wine the next day, your stress level is at 55 to 65 or more. And that kind of gives you a motivation to realise how your, what you’re doing, impacts on you. I think it’s a, I think it’s really empowering. I’d recommend you read the book. It’s a very easy book. It’s a very important book. And, you don’t have to spend big bucks to, to really take advantage of this. And, you know, when it comes to devices, I mean, I, I’ve had everyone I’ve had tried the ordering, the woop and the Fitbit, I’ve now got my own common, device because I knew I was going to be talking to Turco, and I’ve been reading his book. And the way I see it is, I think it’s a great thing to wear for a month or two, I really do. I think it’s a great way to get your head around what is going on and how your body responds to the various stressors. Similarly with, continuous glucose monitor, I think it’s a great thing to do. For six weeks or so, we spoke to Drew Harrisburg, who a few episodes a few months ago, who, is a type one diabetic. He’s a fitness, sports physiologist and an exercise physiologist. And as a type one diabetic, I think wearing a continuous glucose monitor is really probably quite important. But I think for us as ordinary citizens, ordinary individuals on a journey through health in our in this modern world, I think you can get overly obsessed by measuring it. But I think to benchmark it is a good thing, and I think. Wearing a device for a month or two. Is good. Don’t forget, it’s EMF radiation right there on your body the whole time. And I don’t really like that. But but I think as a way of benchmarking yourself and maybe once a year, coming back to it for a month or so to benchmark yourself again and see how you’re going is important. I remember I became so obsessed with it that when I wore the ring, I’d get out of bed in the morning and check how my how high I had slept. And I had no in my wife so much that she eventually said when she would ask me, how did I sleep? Well, she said, don’t go and look. Just tell me how you feel. And let’s not underestimate how important that is as well. Look, we’ll have links to Tokyo’s book, The Pulse Cure. I would also invite you to join our unstressed health community. With these kind of discussions and a lot more insight into how you can, what the various stressors are that may be impacting on your stress levels. Remember, unstressed health defines a stress as anything that compromises your immune system and promotes chronic inflammation because they are the common denominators in all disease. And I believe our unstressed health platform balancing out the daily challenges of the five stressors, the recovery in the five pillars and our mindset. Our mental fitness with how we approach all of those things is really what we are focussed on. I hope this finds you well. Until next time, this is Doctor Ron Erlich. Hey. Well, this podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health, and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice, or as a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences and conclusions.