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Dr Julie Sladden – Australians for Science & Freedom Website
The Great Barrington DeclarationÂ
The Brownstone InstituteÂ
Prof John Ioannidis
Prof Scott Atlas – Global Liberty Institute
The Real Anthony Fauci Book
00:00 – Introduction & Episode Overview 02:00 – Why Dr Julie Sladden wrote “The Reckoning That Never Came” 05:45 – Julie’s cancer diagnosis and transformation in medical practice 10:58 – How her journey shaped her view on pandemic policies 15:25 – Pre-pandemic health plans vs. COVID response 18:59 – The Great Barrington Declaration explained 28:16 – Vaccine mandates and ethical failures in public health 36:37 – Lessons from Sweden’s approach 39:00 – What future health leaders need: Courage & integrity 48:28 – Hope for the future: Health sovereignty and community empowerment 52:40 – Closing thoughts
The Reckoning That Never Came: Dr Julie Sladden on COVID, Corruption & Courage
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:00:05] Hello and welcome to Unstressed Health, my name is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Well, today we are exploring the pandemic, and I think… Although it doesn’t seem to find its way into very much discussion. Either in governmental… In public health. In professional. Organisations or even in the media, it seems to have been brushed under the carpet. It is a subject that I think we could all describe as a collective trauma. Certainly an opportunity for global reflexion. And I think we have a great deal to learn from it. Both positive and sadly a great deal of negatives. My guest today is Dr. Julie Sladden. Now, Julie is a former medical practitioner. She’s now a health advocate. And she is a courageous voice for transparency in health care. Something I think is that is sadly, sadly like. Julie has been outspoken about the need for genuine reckoning. Following the COVID pandemic, highlighting the profound failures. In public health policy. Leadership and institutional trust. Drawing on her recent piece, which she wrote. Are called the reckoning that never came will explore the societal. Economic? And personal impacts of the pandemic policies. The erosion of trust. In healthcare authorities and why honest conversations are critical. For each and every one of us and also for a national healing and reform. This is an issue. Sadly, I think which is very relevant in Australia, but not really being addressed in Australia. But it is definitely a conversation that’s happening. In the United States. We touch on some of that today. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had. With Dr. Julie Sladden. Welcome to the show, Julie.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:01:57] Thank you, it’s great to be here.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:02:00] Julie, I read your article that was called The Reckoning That Never Came. And I was reflecting on that and that’s why I invited you on. I wanted to talk about this issue as we reflect back on the pandemic. I mean, what what motivated you to call for a pandemic reckoning? And how has your view evolved over the past three years?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:02:23] Well, it’s a good question, it was actually… A topic that I first wrote about over three years ago now. When I first started. Writing in the wake of the pandemic. And it was just coming up on the 2022 election. And I realised that one of my great fears was that. We wouldn’t. Talk about what happened. Because I’d noticed that. Both of the major parties in their debate. Had, or in the debates that they had, hadn’t mentioned the pandemic at all. And I thought. How can they not? This is 2022, so we’re still very much in the… The throes of everything that was going on, I thought how can they not be talking about the biggest thing that has affected people? Including health and physical policy and social cohesion. How can they not be talking about it? And I was just… And I thought, wow, what if they never talk about it? And that kind of thought. Didn’t even really. They’re entertaining, but… I did, I wrote about it and so I wrote about what should be in a pandemic reckoning. You know, that was my kind of like, this is what you guys should be talking about. And it was all of the things, I guess, that should ever be included in a royal commission, if there ever was one as well. So here we are, alarmingly, three years later. And it’s still. Not really happened. I mean, we’ve had. Um… Some various senate inquiries into you know developing terms of reference for a royal commission and we’ve had You know, evaluations of the labour government’s COVID inquiry, which was very much the inquiry that you have when you don’t really want to have an inquiry. Um, but. Nothing really that’s answered. The questions that. Or address the issues that have been. Ongoing since then and They do that at their peril because the people haven’t forgotten and it’s not just that. You know, the people in Victoria who were locked down terribly and had their businesses decimated. It’s all of Australia. You don’t need to go that far to see. Just the carnage, and it’s fiscal, it’s social, it… Educational. Um… The health system and you know every every problem that we had has been made worse and if we don’t actually name up the elephant in the room Then what?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:04:51] I mean, it is I mean I have been following the story of. Corporate capture in health care. For almost 40 years, and it’s something that’s been, it’s not new, although to many it is new. And even I… Was shocked. By the level of capture because that’s really what it was, it wasn’t following any kind of plan and the collective trauma we all experience. At various levels was extraordinary. I’m intrigued though, Julie, because your background is medicine. You are a doctor, you have been a doctor. Tell me about your journey as a doctor. I mean, have you been? Have you been, how would you describe the way you practised medicine up until that point in the pandemic?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:05:41] Yeah, well that is a story in and of itself.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:05:45] I’m intrigued by those stories, Julie, because they’re transformational. For many practitioners, but sadly not as many as there should be.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:05:53] Yeah, and I think… I’ve always said, you know, one of the best educational experiences I had in medicine was being a patient myself. And I think it was that experience that really positioned me to see that. Some of the things that were. Being done as part of the pandemic response were counterintuitive. And weren’t really setting people up. To be healthy. Which is what made me look into it further. We’ve had a lot of terms bandied around in the last few years. You know conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, misinformation. Blah blah blah, call it what you will, but… You have to be prepared to ask questions. When I was practising medicine, you know, as we entered the pandemic, I’d very much. Um, was practising in a way that, you know, I… Being forced to ask questions about the education that I had. The way that we were being trained. And that was simply because I’d actually been forced to go and find my own answers. And it started. I mean, I’ve always been very fit, very healthy. I’ve loved the outdoor lifestyle. I’ve you know never smoked Never been overweight Love sport I love eating healthy and so you can imagine my surprise. When I developed breast cancer at the age of 39 with no family history. That what they’ve followed was a a series of unfortunate events. That, um, forced me down a path of actually looking at what is health, what is real health. And, you know, without. Boring your listeners too much. I mean I had had a few health adventures along the way. Already. Um, you know, had a blood clot when I was pregnant. I had a grumbling autoimmune condition that nobody really seemed to know what it was but that was okay because I just managed it with. And anti-inflammatories. Carried on and didn’t really pay it much attention. And then this cancer diagnosis, which just came out of the blue, which is really, you know, when you say the word cancer, I mean, everyone, like you feel a bit ill. And I certainly do, I thought, what is going on? And that was back in 2013. That I had that diagnosis. Went through all the… The, you know, that I had surgery, fortunately I was able to avoid. Chemo and radiation. Or the plans changed many, many, many times and. Uh, alright. After about 12 months, you know, following all of this, I was actually… Getting sicker. Not from cancer because essentially I was cured but my autoimmune disease had taken on a whole new life to the point where I was on about. About a dozen drugs. Um… As well as being in an enforced menopause. I developed a… A minimal trauma stress fracture because then I became osteoporotic. Well, osteopenic, I didn’t quite make it to osteoporosis. And I had Terrible, terrible pain. And I just remember one day thinking… This is ridiculous. I’m getting sicker. And Like, I shouldn’t be, like, if I look, if I extrapolate down this path, by this time I was 42, I thought… All I can see is… Like this is getting worse and I’m going to end up on more drugs to manage the side effects from the other drugs. And, um… I had a family member who… You know, it was knowledgeable in gut health. So I spoke to them. Not it was just an off the cuff kind of conversation they said oh maybe you should go and have a look over here and go and read up about that. And I’d always been interested in nutrition and things. That really did set me off. On a path of reading and learning and discovering some very knowledgeable people out there who’ve been looking at health. From what I would call now a real holistic point of view, not just symptom, diagnosis, you know, drug. Which is the way that I do.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:10:15] Because what you were experiencing, Julie, was standard of care. I think that’s worth mentioning. To our listener that You weren’t experiencing anything out of the ordinary, in fact quite the opposite. You are experiencing what is considered in modern medicine. Standard of camp. And I presume the person who knew a little about nutrition wasn’t a doctor. OK, just laying down some foundations here, because I do think it’s interesting to. Talk and I’ve spoken to many doctors over the years on this programme. About the transformational experience their own diagnosis had on their practise of medicine. It’s not an uncommon story.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:10:58] It’s true, I think there has to be a catalyst event to make you go looking. A little bit further afield. And it’s not as if you’re looking in weird and wonderful places. Sometimes it’s just actually… Researching. Papers that, you know, look at. You know, what do we know about the gut microbiome or… You know, what do we know about vitamin D? I mean vitamin D was something that I had. Incredible deficiency in you know my vitamin D was in my boots when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I know that that was one of the things. Contributed to my immune system not working very well. So it was almost like… And what followed was about sort of a six or seven year period of… Getting myself. Back to a reasonable level of health. No longer on any. Medications. And a completely different way of living, but it was like doing another whole medical degree. And I did lots and lots of courses. They did a 12-month nutrition course. They did some of the training through ACNHM, the Australian College of Nutrition and Environmental Medicine. They did great courses there.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:12:04] Julie, I’m the past immediate past president, so yeah, I know.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:12:07] Yeah, I know, I recognise you from somewhere. Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:12:10] So it’s good to hear you put a plug in for ACNEM, the Australasian College of Nutritional Environmental Medicine, but do go on.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:12:17] Yeah, and I just really pieced together my own sort of Choose Your Own Adventure training which was tailored to My- health problems and by doing so I kind of found, learned a lot of things that would help other people along the way. So my medical career as it was has always been a bit of a choose your own adventure because my husband’s a doctor as well. When you’re in a two-doctor family and you’ve got kids, you often find that one of you is a little bit more kind of, you know. What’s the word? Flexible than the other. And so I’ve worked in our general practise a number of times. Spent eight years in emergency medicine, which is where I was. When I was diagnosed. But when I return to medicine after that period of ill health, I… Is back in general practise. And I started collecting patients who… Well, I started getting patients who… Similar problems to me. And then I would tell their friends and then soon enough. You know, it’s like cool. GPs who don’t have the time to Practise in that way. Would be sending their patients to me. And so when the pandemic arrived, I was essentially doing nutrition and gut health. And doing longer consultations. You know, my patients would come and see me and we’d just, you know. Work out what was happening in their life, and get them back to some kind of even keel. It was very rewarding, it was very hard. Because you’re dealing with helping people change. Habits of a lifetime. Um, but usually by the time they got to me, they. So I figured it was that way or… No other way. So that’s… Really what? Um… Primed me, as it were, to see. Some of the responses that we were doing in the pandemic. I actually was telling a friend about this recently. I said, you know, I remember what I was doing, where I was. When I all of a sudden realised everything that they’re saying to the public. Is actually setting them up. To suppress their immune systems and that’s not what we need right now. You know what I mean? Stay home, stay frightened, stay indoors, don’t exercise. Binge watch Netflix, drink alcohol and junk food. And separate you from all your loved ones. I mean talk about you want to You want a way of destroying the immune system. That’s a pretty good start And, uh, That was pretty much when I sort of started. Looking into it a bit more and asking a few more questions.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:14:45] It’s interesting because you talked about your trauma of diagnosis. And what a transformational experience it was. And very few people could argue with the fact that the pandemic. Was a collective trauma for us all. And you raised some critical questions about why pre pandemic plans were abandoned. You know, in your view, I mean, we don’t seem to have learned a great deal from this trauma. In your view, what were some of the most damaging deviations from those pre-pandemic plans? And why weren’t they, and in fact, why aren’t they being debated openly today?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:15:25] Well, that’s the… $50 million question isn’t it really?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:15:28] I would say, actually, it’s the hundred billion dollar question, but yes, closer to the truth. That’s a little more accurate, but it’s a hundred billion dollar question and answer. But no, really, there were plans in place, pre-pandemic plans in place, they were abandoned, really. What were some of the plans that were there that would not follow?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:15:50] Well, I looked into this in, it was around about 2021, I think, and I thought, surely there are some pandemic plans, and sure enough there were. They’ve been recently refreshed as of August 2019, so they’re… So I feel like, you know… Hot off the press. And as I mentioned, nothing about mass lockdowns of healthy people. There were staged responses and ways of isolating cases. And things, but not this mass lockdown of people. It was very much more graded and systematic. It didn’t talk about mass vaccination of healthy populations. It talked more about the focused protection of at-risk groups. You know, contact tracing and things like that, some of which we saw. But it was such a deviation from… What we actually saw to what was written in the plan was just such a deviation. There’s no way the two things. You know, could exist together in the same room and it was… Very much. Closer our plans. We’re very much closer to what was espoused in… The Great Barrington Declaration, which some of your viewers may be. Familiar with. Professor Bhattacharya.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:16:58] Yeah, just to remind us, I mean, that was something we have spoken about. But I think it’s worth reminding our listener. About the Great Barrington Declaration.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:17:08] Yeah, so that was, I think… Put out in October 2020. And it was. By three very well-respected. Epidemiologists. Suneetra Gupta, who I believe is from Oxford. Yes. Professor J. Bhattacharya. He’s a professor from Stanford, and he also has a… He had a chair in economics as well as being a medical doctor. Epidemiologist and Martin Kuhldorf. And from have it, I believe. And there are a lot of people also in the background I’ve since learned a little bit more. About that, you know, Scott Atlas, I think, you know, was very much involved, you know, around all that at that time and Geoffrey Tucker who now… Who runs Brownstone Institute. A lot of good articles on there. They really wanted to, they noticed that everything that was being said was actually not what the literature had been saying, the pandemic literature which we had for 100 years. Um, was not. Being followed. And they also had, by that stage, done some studies. John Ioannidis and Co. And I think Professor Bhattacharya was one of the authors on that paper. I actually did some studies in the American population. In spring 2020, so very early on. By April. April, May 2020, they knew that. It was out in the community. Viruses in the community and the. Uh, case. Was the infection fatality rate was somewhere around 0. 0.2% like it was. Really low.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:18:50] Yes, which to put it another way was you had a 99.8% chance of success, chance of not not dying.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:18:59] And what that study also showed was who was at risk and those who were at risk. With an elderly. And those with multiple co-borbidities. So they got together. Around the table and said look. This consensus of mass lockdowns of healthy people is not what we should be doing, we should do. Focus protection on those that are at risk, so the elderly and the multiple. Those with multiple comorbidities like diabetes and things like that. And we should be letting… The rest of the the populations get on with their life because we know. The research shows that… The cost. Of lockdowns. Kills people. You know, the cost of locking healthy people up kills people, and preferentially it’s the poor and the vulnerable and the children. And I remember I actually had the opportunity to interview Professor Bhattacharya and he said you know, the day they went into lockdown in India. You know, you said there were a million people. Basically. It was responsible for a million deaths, that lockdown. And it just blew my mind. That, you know, there’s no talk about the number of deaths that happened because of the mass lockdowns. And the schooling and education as well. The children who go through lockdown or are locked out of school, they never fully recover. Those educational years back. And we’re now starting to see… That filter through our education system now. Where I had a teacher say to me the other day. Julie, have you interviewed? Anyone, any of the kindergarten teachers right now. And I said no. And they said, well, you should, because the children that are now entering kindergarten. Are the 2020 babies. And. They’re seeing some. Um, very alarming. Things so that’s a TBC. Conversation that that is going to have to happen and this is where I’m talking about there are so many downstream effects of the things that we did. You know, economically. You know we’ve got this inflation now I don’t know how COVID is not a part of that conversation because what was done. Was basically to set us up for this inflation. That we now have. We have the healthcare system. Which has been never fully, hasn’t fully recovered from the mandates. And then of course, you know, the vaccinations that some people left their work. Workplaces because of that. We all know, I’m sure, your watchers probably are aware that, you know, people have been injured by those, some of those are not able to go back to work or… Are struggling and have reduced capacity. I know people like that in the healthcare industry. So that’s another, you know, four way that we’re sort of struggling through. And so by not going back and looking at. You know, what we actually did versus. What we should have been doing based on, you know, the evidence, which is, like I said, what the… Great Barrington Declaration espoused. Focus protection and let healthy people get on with their lives. Just like to say, about a million people have signed that document now, including Noble Prize. Winning laureates and tens of thousands of doctors and researchers and scientists. I mean that was the… Real consensus. That was silenced, that was censored. From the mainstream media and we’re still not talking about it. But if we don’t talk about it, not only… Are we set to repeat it? But there’s absolutely no way that we can even begin to approach. Has happened. And how to dig ourselves out of this mess.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:22:50] I mean, I’m amazed that, you know, the pre-pandemic plan, which as you said had been updated. As late. As August 2019. Presumably the very people that made the public health declarations during the pandemic. Were involved in. That planning. I must be right because who else would be involved in a pre-pandemic planning? Than chief medical officers and public health and epidemiologists and economists. They were all involved. Well, I just cannot understand. What happened? That changed everything.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:23:31] I think. You know, that’s. Very much a specific conversation that needs to. Happen as well. Because. That’s a question that just hasn’t been answered. It hasn’t even been discussed. So, you know, tell me, I often wonder, did somebody get a memo that the rest of us didn’t get? You know, when was the decision made that we’re not going to follow? The pandemic plan. We’re going to do this other thing. Um, and some people, you know, hypothesise, Oh, well, we’ve, we followed China because China was locking people down, said they’re on top of it, and so we all followed their lead. I don’t think so. Um… We’ve never before seen the world. All be so cool. I mean, so many different countries in the world are all doing the same thing. It just Without wanting to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but you know You just think, was there a memo that we all missed that was being used to? I don’t go, but the question definitely needs to be addressed. And it’s one of those. Parts, components of the reckoning. Why do we? Diverge from it. And I think I looked up the pandemic plan. A little while ago. And they haven’t rewritten it yet, so I’m kind of like, well, what’s gonna be the next? Um, iteration of that.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:24:52] Hi, Dr. Ron here and I want to invite you to join our unstress health community. Now like this podcast, it’s independent of industry. And focuses on taking a holistic approach. To human health. And to the health of the planet, the two… Are inseparable. There are so many resources available with membership, including regular live Q&A’s. On specific topics with special guests. Including Many with our amazing Unstress Health Advisory Panel. Now we’ve done hundreds of podcasts all worth listening to. With some amazing experts on a wide range of topics. Many are world leaders but with membership We have our Unstress Lab podcast series. Where we take the best of several guests and carefully curate specific topics for episodes. Which are jam-packed full of valuable insights. Join the Unstress Health Community. If you’re watching this on our YouTube channel… Click on the link below or just visit on unstressHealth.com to see what’s on offer. Join Now! I look forward to connecting with you. Well, I think the word conspiracy theory doesn’t really Do it justice, I think if you use the words business model. It seems to make a lot more sense. Erosion of trust was an issue. I know there was an article in the American Medical Journal. Which said, prior to. 2020. Prior to the pandemic, trust in physicians and hospitals was at about 70 percent. And now the number is at 40%. And I think that is probably. The case more in America than in Australia. I think the conversations have gone on more in America than they have. Here in Australia, would you agree with that?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:26:45] I would agree with that and I think I saw the same article. And while the longer that this lack of open conversation happens… The less chance we have of rebuilding that trust. You can’t have trust without transparency. There’s been very little transparency, they can’t expect to build back trust without answering some of the hard questions and that collective trauma that people have gone through. Through to not even have You know, grievances add. You know, we’ve seeing, you know, people who’ve been terribly injured by the vaccine and you know, still. We have this, oh, there’s nothing to see here. You know, safe and effective. And I think. That’s not the most. True iteration of the conversation that should be happening right now. They’re blaming the drop-off in vaccination rates in general. Um, and. You know, obviously the flu vaccine and. And getting your COVID booster is being heavily promoted at the moment and they’re not getting a lot of uptake. And I think that pretty much tells you the barometer of where the people are at right now. They’re voting with their feet. So these are those unanswered questions, and this also, I think, really demonstrates a lack of trust that’s there. I know people who now say they… They wouldn’t go and see a GP or they wouldn t go to a hospital, you know, because they just don t trust the system anymore. We have a real problem and we have to have those conversations if we want to build. The trust back.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:28:16] Mmm, no, no. I- Completely agree. I mean you highlighted that the mandates and the tension between personal autonomy. And public health mandates. You talked about that. How should we as a society balance out those kind of individual rights with collective responsibilities? Moving forward because, you know, I guess we live in a community. We want to have our personal freedoms. I mean, this was one extreme example of having almost all personal freedoms removed. There’s gotta be a balance there somewhere, hasn’t there?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:28:54] And look, the best point I can think of is one that was given to me by Professor Bhattacharya, and he said, Represent a failure of public health. You said if you’ve got to mandate people to have a vaccine. Then public health has failed. It should be so good. And so. Safe and so effective and so open and it’s, you know, people’s that they’re actually lining up to have it. And, you know, I’ve been called an anti-vaxxer. I’ve had more vaccines than most people and then some because I’ve travelled quite extensively as well. And, you know, where treatments work and, um, you know, a therapeutic intervention works. You know, I’m the first person to put myself there too. You know, so I’m not. Weighing down the health system, you know, so and that’s why I take responsibility for my own health as well because I see that as my duty so that I’m not. You know, taking up unnecessary resources. Anyone of any, you know, responsibility will do that. So. When they mandated it, I think there was this line that was crossed. That they really didn’t consider. The adverse effects of actually mandating because there was that. There was a breach of trust that K-I-E-M from that and it went from being we’re all in this together. To uh you know it’s you’re you’re either in this or you’re out and they’re ostracising then of people who decided they couldn’t give informed consent to the vaccine. They were then essentially like, you know, some of them gave up their jobs in order to do that. That were also ostracised by members of the community. And also socially. Politically. Some of the most appalling displays of professionalism, I’ve… Ever seen in my life. Was watching some representatives of doctors’ organisations. On the news basically saying, you know, if you don’t have it. You know, you’re making your life very difficult for yourself. And some really coercive speech. That. I just… You know, and I did, I’ve done training in medical education and my area of interest was professionalism and ethics and informed consent. And I remember watching this and just feel a colour drain out of my face thinking. Like the whole population is being. Coerced. Uh, and it was, yeah. Yeah, it was just appalling and… So there’s a collective trauma that stemmed. From all of that as well, and it’s not as if there’s no evidence about this. There’s actually a paper that I sourced I think it was from 2019 or or thereabouts, which basically said mandate. Vaccines with care. And it was talking about the childhood schedule. And the risks of. You know, mandating versus, you know the carrot and stick approach type thing. And you know it said there’s a line whereby once you start to force people make the percentage of people who, you know, sort of… You know, on the fence about it. You try and push them too much. And they’ll go the other way. And we saw that happen. On mass . Now as far as the responsibility to the community. I have a real problem with that argument in that. It’s flawed from the position of the assumption that the vaccine. Prevented transmission.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:32:29] Which they knew it didn’t.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:32:31] They knew it didn’t. They knew before it was mandated that it didn t. And I’ve got the emails to prove it. You know, the emails were forward, so they had that conversation. And… That’s the problem. You have to understand a little bit about. Bureaucratic processes, you need to understand a bit about medicine, you need to want to say, you know, they’ve never really… Invented a respiratory vaccine at least that’s Been able to stop- transmission, you know, when you have a vaccine. It prevents the person, it helps the person. It’s for the person’s protection. Um… And so that was never really. The basis for you know, for getting vaccinated in the past. So this really big push to get vaccinated to save grandma, you know. Was just. One that we’ve never seen before.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:33:26] Yeah. And to isolate the person who wasn’t vaccinated and say you’re potentially threatening our community, we’re in fact. If the vaccine was effective. It was they that were taking the risk. Themselves. They weren’t, you know, you’re fine. You’ve been vaccinated. What are you worried about? You’re vaccinated. You’re safe, aren’t you? I’m the one that’s going to take the risk.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:33:52] Exactly. And I remember when I decided. That I wasn’t going to have the vaccine. And I thought, well, you know. I can do telehealth walls, it turned out our mandates. In Tasmania or so. Stringent that you couldn’t even do telehealth. So you couldn’t provide any health service.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:13] You could not even provide a health service online unless you were vaccinated.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:34:18] It’s completely illogical. So it really. Punitive. And I remember saying to somebody you know, don’t worry, if I get COVID, I’ll just… You know, take myself off to a ruin somewhere, I promise not to burn the health there. The hospital system. You know, by that time we kind of… In 2021 we knew. Things that would help. We knew who was at risk. I knew I was healthy and I was at more risk. Because given my personal medical history. Um… You know from having the the jab than I was from the virus. I think, and this is the thing, everybody needs to make the correct decision for them. You know, we’ve never before seen… People recommending that children be vaccinated with something that we don’t have. Medium to long term safety data on. Pregnant women We don’t have medium to long-term safety data in order to protect. The population that’s at risk, the older population. It’s almost like the people who we should have been protecting were being used as a shield. Like I said, there were so many things that just got thrown out the window. Aye. Really made me despair of what the medical profession and the… The bureaucrats and political class were doing.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:35:33] I noticed that you’ve used the term media outlets and I no longer use the term news outlets. Particularly since the pandemic. It really was. Such a coordinated… A response between… Government, professional organisations. And media all singing to the same tune. And any question about safety of a pharmaceutical product. Which vaccines are. Was considered to be anti-vax. You know, if I was concerned about. A pharmaceutical product, would I then be deemed to be anti-pharma? Well, probably I would, but… You know, it was it was so coordinated, wasn’t it? I’m looking at Sweden was an interesting point in case, wasn’t it because people. Often cite that and cite it in a way that I don’t think they’ve looked at the statistics. What lessons could we learn from Sweden who didn’t lock down? Did they? I don’t think they did lock down. What were some of the lessons we learnt from them?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:36:37] Well, interesting case because I don’t believe they had their own pandemic plans. I believe they followed the UK’s pandemic plans, which the UK themselves didn’t follow. And they, you know, went for it. They basically let people… You know, choose. Their movements. They didn’t do mass lockdowns. I think one of the things that they… Didn’t do so well. They sent elderly people. Got COVID back to their nursing homes and so I think I ended up with a little… You know spike there in the older population. So they possibly could have handled that a bit better. I’d just like to say I haven’t looked closely at their data, so this is more commentary. That other people have provided. As far as long-term effects from the lockdowns. And mandates and things like that. They’re not suffering from those. They also don’t have the economic. Hangover. That the rest of us all have. As well because the lockdowns had. Devastating effects on our economy. You know, just from the point of view of, you know businesses and it was fine. Well, fine, I use that term relatively as well for the laptop class, you know, those who could just do their job. At home. Whilst cooking dinner and homeschooling their children as well. Whereas, you know, the bricks and mortar people who… Like especially in hospitality. You know, they were decimated, retail was decimated. You know, money was printed to keep people at home, never before a week. You know, printed money to… Keep people at home. You know, we wonder why we’ve got a cost of living crisis. Right now.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:38:15] You mentioned the appointment of Jay Bhattacharya, who, as you said, is this. Professor of Epidemiology and Economics at Stanford. You also mentioned John Ioannidis from Stanford and it’s worth. Noting that he’s the most cited author in history. In fact, I think if you get an article published and you get a hundred or two hundred or a thousand citations, you’re doing really well. He’s had two hundred thousand. So, you know, he’s he’s well regarded. But he’s now the head of the National Institute of Health in America. What qualities do you think future health leaders have to have to restore? If you know, faith, trust. And integrity in our organisation. I mean. What do you think needs to happen?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:39:00] Well, I think, you know, Professor Bhattacharya is, is probably a… A very good example of what we need to have. In our Policy Our Health Bureaucrats, Our Health Leaders now. I mean he has basically earned his stripes as it were. The hard way and by speaking up. You know, I remember him saying, if I can’t as a Stanford tenured professor… Speak up than who can. He saw it as his duty. But it wasn’t without cost, you know, he was… Persecuted heat. Was taken through the mill. By his own university, I believe. And just suffered some terrible, you know attacks on his credibility. And… You know, to see him rise to be. Head of the NIH now just… It really is probably one of the most encouraging things that I have seen in the last five years. And what do we need from our our health leaders? We need integrity. We need honesty, we need people. Who are actually prepared. To Say the hard thing, to ask the hard question. And I know that in his speech to… The Senate when he was having… What do they call this the session where they basically grill them?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:40:25] Yes, yes.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:40:26] You know and he talked about you know freedom of speech and freedom of scientific discourse we need to be able to do that and that was what Suffered tremendously during that period. And, uh. Some Scott Atlas as well who I spoke with and you know he talks He’s actually helped to set up a organisation called the Global. Liberty Institute and they are training up. You know, young leaders, many of them are already sort of bird… You know, sort of blooming leaders. But the younger generation to be able to. Work in these spaces and what are the questions that they ask them? Is what have you done to show courage? So we need courageous leaders. We need… People who are actually prepared. To sacrifice. They’re, you know… Their careers. Their reputation. To do what’s right. At the end. It alarms me even to have to say that because it sounds so… Poetic and like it’s out of a movie, but it literally is as Simple as that, we need people who are not scared. To risk everything, to say what’s right and to do what’s And I’ve been greatly encouraged over the last few years because No, I’ve. I’ve met some amazing Australians. Um… In the health professions and in the medical profession, even the health. Kind of helped to restore my trust that there are people out there. Many of them were just silence. Um, but I’ve been very courageous. You know, my story is just like, like these compared to some of them. What people have gone through. But we have a lot of courageous people out there and they’re the people that we need to be putting in the areas of leadership.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:42:15] Well, speaking of those in areas of leadership, we did a programme. In 2022, which was about two years after the pandemic started. And the Australian government put on a forum for early treatment. Now, you were in emergency, and I think… It’s good to get, you know, if there’s a problem, get in for the first 24 to 48 hours. If there’s a medical emergency. So I think we could agree that 22 months. Is not what we would consider early treatment. But the only treatment that was discussed was newly patented drugs. And this was Brendan Murphy, head of the health department. Paul Kelly, the chief medical officer, Michael Kidd. Skerrett, John Skerritt, the head of the TGA. These were all. Our leaders in the public health field who I believe Many of them are still our leaders. In the public health field. Would it be unfair to say we just need a big broom to sweep out? The Rubbish?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:43:14] Wouldn’t mind a broom to sweep
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:43:18] I mean, you talk about, I mean Jay Bhattacharya is a good example of. Of a highly qualified person who displayed courage, who is now put in a position of authority. Are we seeing anything like that happening in Australia?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:43:31] No we’re not and that that really concerns me. I mean you really do have to look at Um, what’s happening in the U S you know, Trump has been a big disrupter. I mean, I think pretty much both sides will agree. On that, but what we’ve seen is some really thoughtful appointment. Of people, especially in the health. Human Services space, you know, and with Robert Kennedy Jr. Dr. Marty Makary who’s the head of the FDA now, and… Professor Bhattacharya at the head of the NIH. The thing that encourages me is that what happens in the US tends to philtre down. To Australia, so as far as information flow, I think we’re going to see a lot of information. Flowing our way that the mainstream media. Will not be able to ignore. This year.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:44:23] Hmm
Dr Julie Sladden [00:44:24] We’ll see
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:44:25] We’ll see, we’ll see.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:44:28] But as far as seeing a similar Um… Move as a cleaning out of the bureaucracy within the health political spaces. I’m not seeing that. I’m just seeing it. Almost like a digging in and we’ve also got the revolving door of you know, people who move up to the high echelons of. The political bureaucracy, they then kind of go off and get a nice high paying job in. You know, one of the. Pharmaceutical companies or you know, Medicines Australia or… I’m heading up. m-RNA stuff, you don’t have to look too far to see what’s happening.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:45:06] No, we we did a programme with. A professor of paediatrics who I at the time when people were advocating for children to have vaccines. And I knew that they were very low risk. I mean, talk about. Almost zero risk of dying from COVID said, how can you justify? Using a experimental vaccine. On my grandchildren, you know, on my five, six, seven, eight-year-olds, and he said How will we know it works if we don’t try? I saw that. What a statement, what a statement.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:45:40] Unbelievable.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:45:41] It’s just, it is quite frightening. Look, a couple of things, quick questions I wanted to ask you if you had to pick one word for the Australia’s pandemic response. What would one or two words be that comes to mind for you?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:45:58] Atrocious. Devastating.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:46:04] No, that’s that’s pretty good. Have you read a book or an article or is there a particular figure? Who influenced your thinking most during the pandemic?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:46:14] I read The Real Anthony Fauci pretty early on.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:46:19] Yes, I did too.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:46:20] Yeah, and that was… Because it was so well researched and so well referenced. So that’s it for your watches. It’s a book by Robert Kennedy Jr. And it does really open your eyes to a lot more. I mean, I thought I was pretty sort of aware of some of the things that were going on, but. A lot more wear after that. So that really did. Deeper my knowledge about the breadth and depth of some of the Corruption that’s been going on And Now that, you know, now that we’re sort of all looking. At things a little bit more closely, you don’t have to go very far to see the similar patterns emerging in different areas of. Know, the pharmaceutical industry and then you know, the way things are being regulated. Vested interests and that pattern as well. Definitely that book, The Real Anthony Fauci, was a good one. Seeing so many good books come out. Um… Dr. Clare Craig’s book (Expired: Covid the untold story). The name escapes me now. Her book was very good. Ramesh Thakur, he’s written… Um, a very A very good one, Our Enemy, the Government:
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:47:32] It is interesting with that Fauci book and. You know, people have very polarised views of Robert Kennedy Jr. And in my experience. If they have never read or listened to anything that he’s ever said. They feel he’s some kind of a nutter. And to anybody that has bothered to listen or read anything that he’s written. You can’t help but be impressed. And obviously… Professor, President Biden was impressed because he gave. Anthony Fauci, a presidential pardon. In advance, dating back to 2014. So I guess RFK mustn’t have been. Too far off the mark. If President Biden was feeling strong enough to do that. That’s being a little bit, hopefully a little bit positive, Julie, if we can be. What’s your biggest hope for the Australian health care system in the next few years?
Dr Julie Sladden [00:48:28] Well, that’s a good question. I do like to be hopeful too because I think there’s always hope and I think we you know we have That’s the best way. To go forwards and not… And by going forwards, I don’t mean forgetting the past, but I’m learning from it. And if the government aren’t going to be responsible for the reckoning, I think the people will. Will do that themselves in their own ways, all the way from community. Groups and, you know, families, they’ll find their way of… Doing the reckoning. What would I like to see in terms of health? I call COVID very much a great reveal. And it was a great reveal in so many ways about how. People had outsourced their healthcare to the government. You know, that we allowed the political class to stand on, you know get up on TV every single day and tell us to how as a population, how to manage our health. Without there being any real sort of public health messaging. And I think. It has woken a lot of people up. About what is really helpful. Where does your health come from? What things do you need to do to stay healthy? And so I’ve seen pockets of, you know, like. Highly motivated groups. You know, get together and actually start to… Talk about, you know, ways that they can. Live that is sort of. Taking responsibility for their own health. By doing just the positive lifestyle. You know, measures or growing their own food. You know being less reliant on you know, having to, oh, you know. Reliable, if something goes wrong, I’ll just go to my, you know, doctor or I’ll just go into my hospital, and sure. That’s part of the healthcare system, but… It shouldn’t be your first port of And so I think we’ve seen an explosion in people sort of really looking into. You know, gut health, we’ve seen an explosion of people looking into. You know, good nutrition, growing their own food, which means they’re getting outside, they’re being more active and just being more. Self-sufficient in general. And really, you know, realising what the important things in life are. People who were used to. Basically just running on empty all the time, you know, they all had an enforced break. Now if there was one positive thing that came out of people being locked down. This is me, so really scraping the.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:50:50] No, no, I think I know where you’re going and I agree with you, go on.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:50:54] They were forced to actually stop. And be at home and have a good excuse for being at home and realising that they couldn’t keep doing what they were doing the way that they were doing it. So. Is for some people it’s actually been a reset in their values. Or discovering that, you know, or if they’ve gone through the horrible trauma of… Not being able to be with a loved one. You know, it’s through. Like a death, you know. I know that happened a lot of times or weddings and or a birth. You know, that they’re really valuing those times and those interactions because you know, we’re human beings. We are designed to be together, you know, living community. And to love and support one another and that is such an important part of health and I think people really realised that. And some people are living their lives differently now. So I’d like to see. In health, you know, when I talk about the health system. I would like to see. Greater movement from the people about towards what is real health because when we look at what it is that you know, the government provides and that’s a part of what the government’s role is. To provide. Sick care services. And may they be. Just those, may it be inefficient. Sick care service while we actually, you know, as far as the Australian population. Have a more healthy population because we’ve learned how to do those things better. That’s what I’d like to see.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:22] Well, I think that’s a great note for us to finish on, Julie. And I want to thank you for your courage and your. You know, the things that you’re doing, advocating for change. Which we both agree is just so necessary. Thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr Julie Sladden [00:52:37] Thank you so much for having me, Ron. It’s been a pleasure to be here.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:40] Well, it’s a confronting subject. It’s confronting if you actually choose to. Explore beyond the mainstream media, which could be the Sydney Morning Herald, the Age, the Guardian. The ABC News, SBS or any of the other news outlets here in Australia. Now Julie had mentioned the name Scott Atlas a few times there. And I thought I’d just share with you that Scott Atlas is a medical practitioner. Well, he’s actually a health policy researcher. He’s the Robert Weston Senior Fellow in Health Policy. At the Hoover Institute, I think that is in Stanford. And he was… He was President Trump’s… Advisor very early on. He didn’t last very long there. Because he was a voice of reason, which was quickly. Shuttled out of the White House by the real Anthony. Fauci? Interesting, wasn’t it, that he received a pardon from President Biden? There were actually no charges laid, but. Biden probably read Robert F. Kennedy’s book, The Real Anthony Fauci and felt. COMPELLED! To provide him with a pardon. Dating back to 2014 when he when he started. Against American policy. Research in the Wuhan virus for gain of function. Research was outlawed in America, so Fauci moved it to Wuhan. But anyway, Scott Atlas. Is quoted as saying the pandemic response was the most. Unethical. The most tragic. Breakdown of leadership in our lifetime. And oddly, It remains the elephant in the room. In many cases, people don’t want to talk about it. And I couldn’t agree more with that, and I believe in Australia. Somewhere between 80 to 90 per cent of the population still fall into that category. They would review the… Wonderful way the lockdowns worked, how many lives we saved and what a wonderful innovation it was to have mRNA vaccine. Sped it through the approval rating of the approval process. The fact that there are some serious problems with it. Wouldn’t have eluded too many people. In my audience, but in the mainstream audienceit would. The virus he went on to say the virus. Didn’t cause the lockdown, human beings decided to impose it. And they fail to stop deaths or transmission. So, look, there was so much to learn from that. I mean, Julie, I. Compliment her for being such an outspoken advocate for. Transparency in health care is something that is sadly needed. And as I said, I think we need. A very big broom to to Get rid of the rubbish. That is heading up so many of our public health institutions. I hope this finds you well. In fact, I would encourage you to join the Unstress Health Community. But that’s a message you’re about to hear anyway. Until next time, this is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Feeling stressed? Overwhelmed? It’s time to unstress your life. Join the unstressed health community and transform stress into strength. To build mental fitness. From self-sabotage to self-mastery. And together… Let’s not just survive. But thrive. Expert led courses, curated podcasts. Like-minded community and support and much more. Visit UnstressHealth.com dot com This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or as a substitute for care. By a qualified medical practitioner if you or any other person As a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions experiences and conclusions
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