Show Notes
- DOCUMENTARY: Covid Collateral – Where Do We Go for the Truth
- Other Episodes on the Subject
Timestamps
00:00:01 – Introduction & Invitation to the Unstress Health Community
00:02:34 – Meet Vanessa Dylyn: Award-Winning Producer and Director
00:03:23 – What Motivated Covid Collateral: Spotting Early Red Flags
00:06:43 – Media Narratives and Scientific Suppression during Covid
00:14:32 – Gain-of-Function Research & the Lab Leak Theory Debate
00:24:59 – Collateral Damage Stories: Medical Mismanagement & Delayed Care
00:41:12 – Public Trust Breakdown: Media, Government & Science
00:47:58 – Final Takeaways & How to Watch Covid Collateral
Vanessa Dylyn – Unmasking the Truth: Behind the Scenes of ‘Covid Collateral’
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:00:01] Hi, Dr Ron. Here it. I want to invite you to join our Unstress Health community. Now, like this podcast, it’s independent of industry and focuses on taking a holistic approach to human health and to the health of the planet. The two are inseparable. There are so many resources available with membership, including regular live Q&A on specific topics with special guests, including many with our amazing Unstress Health Advisory Panel that we’ve done hundreds of podcasts over listening to with some amazing experts on a wide range of topics. Many are world leaders, but with membership we have our Unstress Blab podcast series where we take the best of several guests and carefully curated specific topics for episodes which are jam packed full of valuable insights. So join the Unstress health community. If you’re watching this on our YouTube channel. Click on the link below or just visit Unstress health.com to see what’s on offer and join now. I look forward to connecting with you. Hello and welcome to Unstress Health. My name is Dr. Ron Ehrlich. Well, today we explore science and public health. And when you do that, you can’t help thinking about Covid. And that’s exactly what we are focusing on today. We are focusing on the movie, the documentary Covid Collateral. And as you will hear, the collateral damage was, as we all knew was significant. My guest is Vanessa Dylan. Now, Vanessa is a producer, a director and a writer. She’s an Emmy nominated and Canadian Screen award winning producer of international Factual Programming. She’s done many movies, things like Plastic People, a feature doc about the dangers of human health of microplastics, The Good Virus film about a solution to superbugs, The Divided Brain with psychiatrist Ian McGilchrist. But this movie Covid Collateral visits with some of the world’s experts in epidemiology, disease management, and it traces a story that I think we should all be very aware of. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Vanessa Dylan. Welcome to the show, Vanessa.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:02:34] Thank you so much, Ron. I’m very glad to be here because I’ll tell you, I love Australian accents.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:02:41] Good. Well, you know, when it comes to accents, it’s one of the frustrations, I guess, for Canadians is that they are often confused with Americans. And yet I think Canadians and Australians have a lot in common. Yes, we get on well. We get on.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:02:55] Well. Yes, absolutely. We’re one of the we’re one of the five countries. And so we we tend to have the same I, I, I think we tend to have the same issues often.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:03:09] Yes. Well, I think the issue we’re going to be talking about today is certainly one that was common to us all. I mean, it was obviously a big event, Covid. But and apart from the obvious, what motivated you to make the film?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:03:23] Well, it was a whole number of of of things. A few months into Covid, I started noticing that there were restrictions placed on ordinary people. That made no sense at all that that small business owners were being driven bankrupt, people like hairdressers or cafe owners, and yet all the big box stores stayed open. So apparently you were at risk of Covid if you bought a croissant at your local bakery, but not at Costco. So I thought there’s there’s something here that doesn’t make sense. I mean, we were all shopping and we know one was dropping dead while they were shopping, but our children were being kept out of school. And certainly in Ontario, where where I live, students were being kept out of school for about two years and with which was unconscionable. And I knew I saw people suffering. I saw parents that were trying to get their children into these underground in-person classes. And at the at the same time, I started noticing that there were a number of very prominent scientists that were speaking out against lockdowns. And these were people that that were not fringe scientists. They were people like Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, who’s quite well known now from Stanford. There was Scott Atlas, who was part of the White House coronavirus task force. There was also Sunetra Gupta at Oxford. Martin Kuldorf off at Harvard. Yet these people, once they started speaking out against lockdowns, they were demonised by their own institutions, also by the the National Institutes of Health. And the media turned on them and and presented them to the public like quacks. So it’s not something something is is very strange here. So I started sensing a whole politicisation around the these signs of Covid. And then what really made me quite curious was that there were other scientists who were look who had decoded the genome of the of the virus and found this little thing called foreign cleavage and said, wait a minute, does not occur in nature. This is something that was manufactured in a lab because I’m foreign cleavage is something that is inserted into the into the genome in a lab. And they said this does not look like it came from nature. And Tony Fauci. I’ve been really pushing that narrative that that the Covid virus was something that had jumped out of a wet market in Wuhan that had gone from animal to to human as a natural evolutionary process. But what was really interesting was that the foreign cleavage indicated that the virus had been manipulated to attack human cells.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:06:43] Yeah. So, yeah.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:06:46] So I thought, this is the politicisation of science. This is a cover up, I thought, and I’m not a conspiracy theorist, my mind, my mind does not go there. I have to be slapped across the face for something to to to to think there’s something going on here. And so I thought, I’m not going to make a film about which side is right and which side is wrong. That is that that’s a fool’s game. What I wanted to do was look at how science was being suppressed during the Covid by medical institutions, by media, by the government, by the Biden administration. As we found out later from from the the Twitter scandals, when Elon Musk revealed all of these emails between these scientists that there had been a joint effort to suppress the the the idea of a lab leak theory.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:07:52] It’s worth reminding our listener that many of the names you’ve mentioned there Gupta Kuldorf, Bhattacharya, Scott Atlas. These are all world renowned epidemiologists who specialise in this very thing How to deal in public health with the pandemic. They are from Oxford, from Harvard, from Stanford. It’s it’s quite it’s quite staggering. And like yourself, I mean, with the conspiracy, I look for a motivation and I and I come up with only there’s only two things that I can think of. And one is a business model. It’s a very elaborate and successful business model, and the other is control.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:08:40] One of the things that the public was not aware of at the time, the FBI knew about it and certainly Fauci’s Circle knew about it, was that Tony Fauci through the National Institutes of Health, had been funding coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology for many years. And. In Wuhan. You had research that had been going on between Western scientists and Chinese scientists for years, and they were working on coronaviruses and they were doing gain of function research. Which means for your viewers that if you take a relatively harmless virus, let’s say, like Covid virus, and you make it more powerful, that in a sense what they were doing, they were making the virus more powerful, more deadly to humans. Why would anyone do this? Well, the charitable notion is that in case it does evolve and become deadly and attacks humans, we can have a vaccine ready. So this research had been going on for years and and it was being funded out of the US and also the the the UK. So once Covid actually happened, there was a huge panic. Fauci got his counterpart on the phone in the in the UK. There was just a flurry of phone calls as to how do we how do we deal with this? I mean, certainly the last thing Dr. Fauci would want known and made public was that science could have possibly caused this worldwide pandemic. And that is but that is exactly what Dr. Redfield said in a said in a screening of the film in Washington some months ago. He said and Dr. Redfield was Tony Fauci’s counterpart who was the director of the Centre for Disease Disease Control. And what he said during the film screening, he said that he believed that that Covid had leaked from a lab, and he said he believed this very early on. He said because he said we had been funding this research in China for for many years. And what had been known at the time was that this lab in China was the most dangerous lab in China. It was at the highest biohazard level, which was a level four. But unfortunately, as we know from China, it was it was not it was functioning at a level two lab, which is like your local dental office. So the standards had been slack for many years. And and the FBI knew what The U.S. admin knew it. Fauci certainly knew it. And I hope I hope I’m not making this too complicated.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:12:02] No, no, go.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:12:03] One of the one of the British scientists who had actually was in charge of funding these pockets of research at the Wuhan lab as early as about 2016, he petitioned the National Institutes of Health for insurance in case there was a lab leak. So they knew. They knew. And it was because of the security. The bio security was very low. So Dr. Redfield, during the screening of the film, said that he believed science caused Covid. He said and science needs to come to grips with that. Now, I was shocked out of my mind at the screening, first of all, that Dr. Redfield would actually come and be part of a of a of a panel. But I was more shocked by these revelations here with someone from the medical establishment who was saying these things. And he also said that that he was against lockdowns, but because the White House wanted to speak with one voice, he was muzzled by Anthony Fauci and he was shut out of certain phone calls and he was cut out of the press conference on lockdowns when the White House announced. And you saw that there’s that scene in the film with President Trump at the time, Tony Fauci Dr. Berks announcing lockdowns. Dr. Redfield was not there.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:13:32] Nor was Scott Atlas at that point. Yes.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:13:35] Yes.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:13:37] I mean. I mean, it’s so interesting there, isn’t it? Gain of function. I if I’m not mistaken, the reason it was done in China was because Obama in about 2011 or 12 had banned this kind of research in America. Is that correct?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:13:53] It is. It is correct because it was deemed too dangerous at the time. So I think what they had figured was that that the benefits would not outweigh outweigh the the risk. And Dr. Redfield, again, at the screening said that he felt there should be a moratorium on gain of function research. I mean, here you have in a sense, let’s be charitable and let’s say this was I believe that this was an accidental leak.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:14:24] Yes, I think so, too. And but it was an accident waiting to happen.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:14:29] Exactly. That’s exactly it. Thank you.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:14:32] An accident waiting to happen. And how ironic to hear somebody of Redfield’s standing at the CDC, somebody who’s in charge of the CDC say science caused the caused Covid. When Fauci said trust the science.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:14:52] Yes, he kept saying that. He kept saying that.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:14:54] But trust the science.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:14:55] Yes. As Jay Bhattacharya says in our film, science is not a static thing. It is something that keeps changing. And this is why I felt that looking at the film from the from the perspective of the suppression of science would actually be the most effective way of revealing what had happened.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:15:21] Yes. And, you know, this is such an interesting story because it’s one that I have been following. I hate to say it since the mid-nineties. Wow. About. Yes. About the fact that sometimes what authorities be they regulatory bodies like the FDA or here in Australia, the TGA, what the NHMRC, what their National Health and Research Council like the NIH in America, whether it’s the AMA which stands for the same thing over here as it did in America. All of these organisations espouse a certain message. And, and I mean Covid, you’ve come to that realisation, perhaps you knew about this even earlier, but you know, this is a real moment for many people who genuinely want to trust the science. Yeah. To realise that all is not well in the world of science.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:16:21] Exactly. I think this was a shock for many, many people and a shock that at the end of it we’ve paid a price not just with human life, but a gross loss of trust in our institutions, not just in our medical institutions, but in our media, in our government. I mean, people from English speaking countries like Canada and Australia, US, U.K., we trust our systems. We’re pretty compliant people in that. When the government says you need to have this vaccine, you line up because you, you, you trust your institutions. And and I think at the end of this, I think the public has there has been tremendous loss of public trust in our institutions. And that’s one of the reasons for the subtitle of the film. Where do You Go for Truth?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:17:21] Yes. What an interesting and compelling question to be asking here in 2024. I mean, I often used to I used to think the word narrative described a story, you know, like I would read a book and there would be a narrative in the book. And I knew that news was a different thing. But I think the lines between narratives and news have been blurred. Is that how you see it, too? I mean, what’s going on there? Who you know, What is that? What are our news services doing and why?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:17:54] You know, I was wondering why the media was being so always speaking with one voice and why we didn’t see a lot of in in investigative journalists asking questions. And I think part of it was probably just laziness. But I think I think the media did want to parrot the the the the government narrative. And, you know, I think looking at the images coming out of New York, coming out of Wuhan coming out of China, coming out of northern Italy in the early few months. Yes. The media kept these horror images in the in. Use for for a long time. And the media seemed to report these without any nuance. That is, they seemed to indicate that we were all in danger of dying from Covid, where we knew very early on that there was an age stratification. The media was never talking about this. It was all it always seemed as if whether you were 15 years old or 90, you were in danger of dying from this. And they just kept with these figures that were not accurate. That is not only did they avoid the whole age stratification question, but they kept repeating fatality rates as those people who had died from in in hospitals. But those were not fatality rates. Those were simply the fatality rates of people who had been admitted to hospital. So but and we we we deal with this issue in the film that if 100 people have been admitted to hospital and five people die, you’ve got a 5% fatality rate. But if, in fact, a thousand people have actually been infected, 100 go to the hospital and five people die, then you’re dealing with a much, much smaller fatality rate. And this is what the media was not giving us and they did not have experts on that would actually pass that out. It was all about maximum fear.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:20:09] Which is all about the way news or media, particularly social media, is portrayed now, isn’t it? I mean, it’s it’s again coming back to a business model. It is part of a click rate. Getting attention rather than passing on news. Yeah. It seems to be a disease. Yes, a pandemic of our modern world.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:20:35] And I think it’s just cause a lot of people just to mistrust our standard news outlets, you know?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:20:42] Well, I think there was actually a recent study published which showed in 2020, before the pandemic, distrust for physicians and hospitals used to be around 30 or 40%. And in April 2024, when the study was released, it’s up now to 70%. So 70% of the population that were in America at least distrust their physicians or hospital. I mean, that’s quite a turnaround, isn’t it?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:21:11] It is. And and what was really interesting and this is one of the things that shocked me as I was making the film as a certain facts coming out and and was that we’d heard from doctors who were telling us that the the emergency wards in their hospitals had been empty. And and this is something that I had difficulty getting my head around because we always kept seeing scenes of these overwhelmed hospitals. And I’m sure there were overwhelmed hospitals. Of course, with especially, you know, the the hospitals in Italy in new, new, new New York. But what we didn’t hear was that there were also many hospitals that were empty. Their emergency wards were empty, and some doctors were were quite shy about talking about it because they said that we had been hailed as heroes, whereas. For many, many days. They said for months at a time there were there was barely anyone. And what these doctors were rightly worried about was that there were people who were not coming to the hospital who should be there. So people who were who whose cancer diagnoses were were not being caught. People who had strokes, heart attacks, people who who who needed surgeries that had been postponed, postponed to the point where where they were they were going to have poor outcomes. So what we know now is that there’s a whole level of excess excess deaths because people just had not had had been terrified of. Of of seeking medical care and in many cases who could not access medical care because of because of Covid. And and I think in many cases, the system itself became so tunnel vision that they were on the lookout for Covid and they missed and they missed some serious illnesses such as the young, such as the young man in our film, which was a very tragic story.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:23:36] Yeah. I wonder if you could just I mean, I encourage people to see the film, this Covid Collateral, but just share that to to whet our listeners appetite. What was that story?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:23:47] So this was a young man who was in his I believe he was in his late teens. He became very, very ill. And his family took him to they took him to the hospital, to the to the emergency ward. And he and they couldn’t go in with him because of Covid restrictions. So they would wait out in the parking lot. And it was a maddening several days of of the child being discharged, going back home, getting sicker and sicker and sicker and going back and forth between the home and the hospital. And the hospital had not had only been testing him pre-COVID and they missed a serious meningitis diagnosis with tragic a very tragic outcome. You know, I can’t when when we were editing the film, I had to watch that scene so often. I felt. I just. I could never get used to watching that scene. I mean, the first segment.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:24:59] Hi, Dr Ron. Here it. I want to invite you to join our Unstress health community. Now, like this podcast, it’s independent of industry and focuses on taking a holistic approach to human health and to the health of the planet. The two are inseparable. There are so many resources available with membership, including regular live Q&A on specific topics with special guests, including many with our amazing Unstress Health Advisory Panel that we’ve done hundreds of podcasts over listening to with some amazing experts on a wide range of topics. Many are world leaders, but with membership we have our Unstress Lab podcast series where we take the best of several guests and carefully curated specific topics for episodes which are jam packed full of valuable insights. So join the Unstress health community. If you’re watching this on our YouTube channel. Click on the link below or just visit Unstresshealth.com to see what’s on offer and join now. I look forward to connecting with you. Yeah. I mean, spoiler alert here. But the tragic outcome was that this young man, he was just late teens, I think. Guess who? Who died. Having gone backwards and forwards over a few days to the hospital and not even his parent, his parents had to wait out in the car park while he was being tested for Covid. In the meantime, dying from viral meningitis. From meningitis. I’m not sure it was viral, but very, very tragic and moving part of the movie. But only one one of what must have been many, many stories.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:26:48] Absolutely. And you know, Ron, you you just reminded me that one of the things that I could never get my head around as we as we were making this film was that we actually, as a society, condemned people to die alone. And whether they were elderly people. Dying of Covid, but terminally ill patients of every kind were not allowed to see their their their families. Now, to me, that is the most cruel, inhumane thing that we have allowed as a society to to happen. I mean, can you actually imagine being alone in a room? Not having your spouse with you, not having your children, no one to hold you, no one to kiss you, and saying good bye through an artificial through something artificial, through an iPad. And I thought, I’ve never been able to get my mind around that. And I often thought, who were we protecting?
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:27:57] That is an interesting question. You know, Vanessa, who were we protecting? I mean, we knew very early on, as you said, that if you were under 65 years of age and particularly children, the chance of you dying from Covid was in the order of 0.04%. So your chance of to put it another way, your chance of not dying was 99.96% chance of not dying. And this is what we locked the world and schools down for. Thank you. Thanks to our public health officials. Accountability is as an issue that comes out of this. And as far as I know, nobody’s accountable. In fact, the people that have made those decisions are the ones that are running inquiries about how Covid was managed. Is that your experience in Canada? I mean, I know there are supposed independent investigators, but the word independent is open to interpretation to say.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:29:01] You know, we have it’s just irony of ironies. The chief officer of health in Canada, Dr. Theresa Tam, said that people she made just a blanket statement at one point and say that, you know, people die because of climate change and because of colonialism and because of white supremacy. And this was the same person that was telling Canadians to wear a mask while you’re having sex during Covid. So that is the level of madness that we have been inflicted with in in in Canada. You know, I wouldn’t I don’t fault any of the you of the mid-level politicians or the rank and file health workers. These were not people that that had much to to to say about this. They were just as panicked as everyone else. They were just as worried as everyone else. But it is the people at the very top. It is the people who had an inkling of how dangerous this was and to and to and who continued the lockdowns and continued punishing people, knowing that there were there was soaring mental illness amongst young people who had to lock down, who had I mean, there were there were a lot of special needs, a lot of special needs, people who suffered horribly. But, you know, what was what’s been very interesting recently is there was one revelation that was particularly shocking, and that was the tsar of lockdowns in New York. Doctor, I think is Dr. Jay Varma was exposed recently as at the peak of lockdowns in New York. Apparently he was having sex parties. I kid you not. This has been covered recently in the news. He was having he had rented a hotel room and invited his friends and he was having these sex parties hosted by himself and his wife, another doctor. And if that isn’t in a sense, the the cruellest of things where he’s locking down everyone else, he’s not even practising social distancing.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:31:36] So I think I don’t know. I mean, that does not surprise me at all. And in fact, I love to say to my to any American that will listen. And if there are Americans listening to this, I don’t mind sharing this observation that I just think America is one of the greatest shows on earth. It’s got everything. It’s got a drama. It’s got murder, it’s got political intrigue. It’s got humour. It’s got comedy. It’s got tragedy. It’s got it. It’s got everything. It’s just a non-stop entertainment machine. Except for the fact that it’s one of the most, if not one of the most probably the most important country in the world. And it’s a very it’s a it’s a real worry for us in the rest of the world. I think the similar story, although it may not have been six parties, was happening at the prime minister’s office in in the U.K. as well. Yes. I don’t think we’ve had any revelations like that in Australia and probably not in Canada. Am I right and.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:32:37] Not of that kind of, you know, that kind of drama. But you know what what was really revealing about this to me was that then he realised that the danger was minimal. They knew at the very top that the dangers were minimal if they were frolicking around like this. Then they knew there was no scientific basis for lockdowns for the kind of misery that they imposed on everyone else. And it’s the same type of thing with California’s Governor Newson, who was telling people, no, you can’t visit your relatives, No, you can’t have Christmas with your family. And yet he was busy having you know, he was busy and going out to restaurants, to fancy restaurants with his friends. So it’s one rule for us, one rule for everybody else.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:33:29] Now, you know, you’ve gone through this whole process. I’m actually intrigued to know when you have a documentary like this, you’ve had an idea for it. Now, this is taking a step back from the detail of of Covid. Just asking you a little bit of behind the scenes. From the moment you come up with the idea to the moment the film is released, it’s quite a process. How long does that take? What are some of the challenges?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:33:55] Well, it took two years because it took two years. And I’ll tell you, Ron, if I knew at the beginning what I knew now, I would have spun around and run in the opposite direction.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:11] Interesting.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:34:11] Because it was probably the most difficult, gruelling time of my entire life. Why? Because I. Because not only was the film difficult to finance and no one no one wanted to finance that, certainly not the. I started off in Canada and I was met with a desert of polite Canadian silence and in some cases not so polite, in spite of the fact that the broadcasters know me and they know my films. But it was a shut door or we don’t really want to talk about this. And in my own industry, people were hostile towards me. They were just hostile that I would even raise this question, that I would even question what had happened. And it was even difficult outside of my core, a creative team. It was difficult to get business people to work on this. It was difficult to get a production accountant. Even even a closed captioning technician turned it down.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:35:21] WOW
Vanessa Dylyn [00:35:21] It was radioactive, the entire subject. And finally what happened was a small Canadian streamer called New Tang Dynasty gave me a small license which triggered other Canadian funding. And the reason he came on board was and this was just sheer luck. This man happened to be in a previous life, a vaccinologist who had worked on the Sars vaccine, and he knew a lot about the suppression of science during Covid. So he wanted to get the film made. And but I still I was still dreadfully short of money. I still haven’t paid my debts on the on the on the film. And that’s why I have a donate button on my website.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:36:11] Right Well, we’ll have links to that. We will have links to that. It’s so interesting. You go and keep going, please. And so I’m interested in this.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:36:19] There was an American finally there was an American funder that came on board who was very sympathetic. She wanted to remain anonymous, but she helped. She actually helped us just finish the making of the film so they could just pay people to actually complete the the film and. I would not have wished this experience on my worst enemy. I think what is heartening right now is that because of the quality of the film there, we have a major just distributor in the UK who I think two years ago wouldn’t have even looked at the film. But I think certain things are softening out there right now. And she felt that the quality of the film was good enough that they were going to to take it on. And we’re hoping to get an American streamer. But until these until these things come through, I’m offering the film on our website for rental or purchase.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:37:24] Yeah. And as I said, we will have links. It’s so interesting, isn’t it? Because I think we’ve observed over certainly the last almost ten years that polarisation has become a major social problem and the pandemic really seemed to turbocharge polarisation. There seem to be, I thought originally too, but I’m now thinking of three different camps. There were those that Marvel followed the mainstream media narrative. I hesitate to call it news, the mainstream media narrative marvelling at our wonderful response to lockdown. And what a win. Wonderful thing. The new, untested mRNA vaccine has been. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. When can I get my next booster? Then there is the other group. The second group of three. The second group who bother to actually look beyond the mainstream media narrative and explore the science and actually do trust the science and realise that it’s not black and white and they have concerns. And then there’s another group which are just so fearful of being even connected with it because they will literally lose their jobs or livelihoods if they speak up. That’s the case in Australia. Is that how it is in the in Canada or even in the US, if you know that? Is that your observation?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:38:45] I think so. That’s that’s my read of the situation. Certainly in Canada. I think the U.S. just by its nature, just is a much more open society. And I think also right now the US is undertaking a lot of commissions. They’ve had the Senate subcommittee hearings on the origin of Covid now, I think for several years. And and all of the and all of the findings of the Senate subcommittee, you can find it. You can find it online. But they have been grilling Dr. Fauci. There have been grilling Dr. Fauci’s entire team because of these because of these emails, because of the because the Senate subcommittee hearings had access to all those secret emails. Largely because of Elon Musk, who had who had chosen a number of investigative journalists to come to Twitter and to curate a lot of these emails. So he didn’t. He did the right thing. He didn’t just dump them out there. He had a number of investigative journalists look at them and slowly put them out there. The Senate subcommittee hearing said access to those emails. So this so the subcommittee could see that there was collusion between not just scientists and what are we going to say like focus group, what are we going to say? But also collusion between the Biden people and big tech, where Biden it was revealed that Biden and the and and the White House with the FBI had threatened Twitter, had threatened Twitter and Facebook, saying if you don’t if you don’t suppress these emails or if you don’t take down these people, people. You will be responsible for many, many deaths. And so I think because the U.S. is just a much more dynamic society and a much bigger society and has a much more robust media, I think, than Canada or or or Australia, I think people are going to get at what really happened much faster.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:41:12] Yeah. And well.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:41:14] Already. Already. They’re doing a rehabilitation. Stanford. Stanford did a huge several days ago, did a huge Covid symposium headed by Jay Bhattacharya, who they had demonised years ago. So. So it’s this big. We’re sorry. We’re sorry. We’re sorry.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:41:41] It’s certainly a it’s certainly a message that hasn’t found its way into mainstream media in Australia. There are there is one paper that does kind of follow it, but no, not the mainstream. Knowing what you know and you know, things are going to be you’ve come in contact with a lot of people by some of those in power. So someone like Francis Collins, who’s the director of the NIH, do you think their opinion has changed? You think things will change? Are you optimistic?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:42:12] Yes. And and I’ll tell you why. During the making of the film. And you’ll see this right at the end of the film. We have these boxes at the end of the film that provide updates to the to the viewer. The final box is Francis Collins, the former head of the NIH. And it’s a confession. He was on stage with a with a group of people, and he confessed. He said that unfortunately, he said the public health mindset is that you do everything in your power to save a life and you don’t think about the the collateral damage. And he said, unfortunately, that’s what happened during Covid, that it was that they tried to save lives at the expense of everything else. And this and he said and that was unfortunate. He said, So that means. So that to me is a confession that we didn’t do this right. We will do this better next time. And that was one of the things that Dr. Scott Atlas in his book did emphasise that once he was appointed to the coronavirus task force, he was shocked. He said that normally before, something as important as public health policy, something as important as a lockdown is this is decided upon. You have quite a number of different of of people of different disciplines on that task force. It’s not just epidemiologists. Not just public health people, but there are economists, There are social scientists. There are other people that can give a balanced view of if we do this, these are going to be the consequences. These are people that can give you a reasonable risk ratio. A benefit risk. Yep, ratio. And Francis Collins said that didn’t happen. And that was one of the big shocks that that that Charles that that Scott Atlas got.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:44:31] Scott Atlas is an interesting character because he is very well qualified and he was brought into the White House by Trump. He’s from the Hoover Institute, which I think is part of Harvard or Stanford. I’m not quite sure. But anyway, Scott Atlas is is a really highly qualified person. But he didn’t last long there, did he?
Vanessa Dylyn [00:44:55] No, he was very, very frustrated. I read his book. He I think he lasted about 4 or 5 months. The mainstream media, he said he just wasn’t prepared for the kind of criticism that came his way, the kind of the way he said the media acted towards him. And he said he felt that the media was politically motivated because he had been a Trump appointee to the coronavirus task force. He said they started their media just started taking him down, that he was unqualified, but he was a charlatan and he’s one of the biggest names he was. He is one of the biggest names in public health policy. And to me, this is that this was another shocking aspect of the media to me, that it was it was so ideologically based against Trump that the media was willing just to to to to cut down anyone, no matter how qualified, no matter how of service they were to the public. They were willing to cut this person down. And he just felt I think it was it was frustration, not that he was being humiliated and cut down by the media, but also within the White House itself that he was not listened to when he said he would he would bring in reams and reams of research showing that lockdowns were not a good idea. And he had colleagues worldwide who would give him up to date data. He would bring the data into meetings. And Fauci didn’t want to hear about it, Berks didn’t want to hear about it. And they called him a fringe. And this is I can’t imagine. Being in his being a man like him with his qualifications and going into the White House. An area of the highest public service and being so demeaned not just by the media, but by your colleagues. It’s an extraordinary story.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:47:07] Well, I think the same could be true for he was true for Martin Kuldorf in Harvard and Gupta, Professor Gupta in Oxford, and Jay Bhattacharya, who I had the pleasure of hearing here in Australia from Stanford. These people have dedicated their entire professional lives to public health, pandemic and epidemiology and were identified by the so-called news services as Fringe.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:47:34] Yes.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:47:36] I mean. Anyway, listen, Vanessa, I want to thank you for joining us today. And thank you so much for the very timely Covid Collaterall we know. You know, on reflection, what a huge impact, what the collateral damage was. So your title is very, very apt. So thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for the documentary.
Vanessa Dylyn [00:47:58] Thank you very much. And your viewers can find the film at www.covidcollateral.com. And thank you very much for having me. Ron it’s been a pleasure.
Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:48:11] Thank you. Well, what an admission from senior people from the CDC and the National Institute of Health CDC, Dr. Redfield, who was the leader of the CDC to say science caused Covid. And for Francis Collins, the former head of the National Institute of Health, to say that he apologised for the poor way in which the whole pandemic was managed. And and really, we do have this polarisation, don’t we? And maybe you are one of three people that I described, either the person that thinks it’s the most wonderful thing, the lockdowns and the wonderful new technology that in many places of the world has now been banned. The the use of mRNA vaccines. You would be one of those people who are marvelling at that. You would be another person. And and that would be supported, I might add, by the mainstream media. Or you could be another person who actually bothers to read science. And the science is never settled. That’s an important part about science and realised that so we have been badly let down. Or you could be in the third group that just don’t want to know anything about it because either your job or your relationships would be under threat. But it is a it is a an occurrence, a global occurrence that we can all learn from. I would love to be optimistic and say we have learned from it. Sadly, I think that disempowered those that have realised that it is one of the greatest business models of all time. But we will see. We will see anyway. We will have links to Covid Collateral. I would recommend you purchase the movie and look at it and support initiatives like this. And of course we will have links to our Unstress health community, which I would encourage you to join. I hope this find you will. Until next time. This is Dr. Ron Ehrlich. BE, well, feeling stressed. Overwhelmed. It’s time to Unstress your life. Join the Unstress health community and transform stress into strength. Build mental fitness from self-sabotage to self-mastery. And together, let’s not just survive, but thrive. Expert led courses, curated podcasts, like minded community and support, and much more. Visit Unstress health.com today. This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health and related subjects. This content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or is a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences and conclusions.