Dr Leland Stillman: Light Therapy, Circadian Rhythms & Melatonin

This week, I spoke with Dr Leland Stillman, an Integrative and Functional Medicine Physician based in Orlando Florida. In our conversation, we explored the impacts of environmental medicine on health, the benefits and potentialities of light therapy, infrared Light and melatonin.

Health Podcast Highlights

Dr Leland Stillman: Light Therapy, Circadian Rhythms & Melatonin Introduction

Now, if this pandemic has taught us anything — it’s the importance of connections. And by connections, I’m referring to the connections with people, the fact that we can come into contact and actually physically connect. It’s interesting that we have been slowly working our way to a more online world. And there we were thrust into isolation, where the online world was the only world that many of us had contact with and we craved the connection. We realised how important the connection with real people is.

Well, another connection that’s really important is our connection with nature. Not just putting our feet on the ground and connecting with nature and getting out and taking the time to smell the roses and interact with fresh air and plants and birds and animals but also our connection with Light. We seem to have bypassed. We seem to have eliminated that as a factor and actually not just eliminated it, but demonised it.

We’ve been told to stay out of the sunlight. It causes cancer. Protect yourself. Slip, slap, slop has been the connection. And we’ve been warned about the dangers of UV radiation, while at the same time being told that any other radiation is perfectly safe for us. It can’t harm our health. Well, I think we’ve got a little bit mixed up and today we are going to be exploring that particular connection — our connection with light, natural light, and unnatural light, and the effects of it.

Podcast Transcript

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:00:01] I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I am recording this podcast, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and recognise their continuing connection to the land, waters, and culture. I pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.

Hello and welcome to Unstress. My name is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Now, if this pandemic has taught us anything — it’s the importance of connections. And by connections, I’m referring to the connections with people, the fact that we can come into contact and actually physically connect. It’s interesting that we have been slowly working our way to a more online world. And there we were thrust into isolation, where the online world was the only world that many of us had contact with and we craved the connection. We realised how important the connection with real people is.

Well, another connection that’s really important is our connection with nature. Not just putting our feet on the ground and connecting with nature and getting out and taking the time to smell the roses and interact with fresh air and plants and birds and animals but also our connection with Light. We seem to have bypassed. We seem to have eliminated that as a factor and actually not just eliminated it, but demonised it.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:01:39] We’ve been told to stay out of the sunlight. It causes cancer. Protect yourself. Slip, slap, slop has been the connection. And we’ve been warned about the dangers of UV radiation, while at the same time being told that any other radiation is perfectly safe for us. It can’t harm our health. Well, I think we’ve got a little bit mixed up and today we are going to be exploring that particular connection — our connection with light, natural light, and unnatural light, and the effects of it.

My guest today is Dr. Leland Stillman. Leland’s interest in Optimal Health and performance began with his own experiences in his family as a patient, and he gives us an insight into that in his introduction. He was exposed to some of the very best and the very worst, but also the very best of conventional and complementary therapies and so before he even entered Medical School, he had already had a taste of that on a very personal level.

He went on to study Environmental Health at Connecticut College and then received his medical degree from the University of Virginia specialising in Internal Medicine. Over the course of his career. He’s been fortunate enough to study with some great minds in medicine with an open mind. And his mentors have included naturopaths, acupuncturists, chiropractors, homeopaths, as well as some amazing medical doctors. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:03:13] In this episode, we talk about Light. The effects of light, the effects of natural light from our devices in our homes. And we even talk about polar bears. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Dr. Leland Stillman. Welcome to the show, Leland.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:03:33] Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:03:36] Leland, I’m just intrigued because you’re relatively early on in your career, and yet you’ve had some really interesting and I would say really inspiring influences. I wondered if you might share with us a little bit about that journey. 

Leland Stillman’s Health Philosophy

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:03:51] That’s a great question. It all started when my mother refused to accept the status quo in my sister’s care. My sister’s eyes crossed in childhood, and then she ended up getting recurrent sinus infections. And so she had to go in for ENT surgery, for sinus training and my mother distinctly tells this funny story about looking at the ENT doctor after the surgery is complete and she says, “This is it, right? We never have to go through this again.”. 

My sister’s in her arms like recovering from the general anaesthetic and is vomiting into enormous spasm. And the doctor says, “Oh, no, the holes will probably clog up again and she’ll get sinusitis again. And then we’ll have to, you know, go in and do surgery once more.” And my mother thought at that moment, this cannot be the best. There has to be something better than this. 

And then the next 15 years and really on to now, she’s worked through one practitioner after another. So we went to see, I mean, everybody under the sun. We did cupping with some random Chinese Medicine doctor in a strip mall somewhere in Virginia. I remember being taken to see Cranial Sacral therapists and chiropractors. And we saw herbalists and we saw Tricon Healers and we saw Dowsers and we went in for Astrology and we did the whole gamut. As weird and wacky as alternative medicine gets, we went there, and then we also went to really top shelf, top of the line, conventionally trained doctors. So that was how I grew up in this sort of in-between place.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:05:17] And, you know, the thing that really got me to where I’m at is that I’ve had atrocious experiences. In both worlds. And I just knew that there was so much that each had to offer. And I refuse to be dogmatic about which approach we should take. I’ll send people an antibiotic prescription and I’ll use, you know, I’ll refer to a surgeon and we’ll do injections and we’ll draw blood and we’ll check labs. And if we can do something with an herb that we could do with the drug, we’ll do that. And if we need they need manipulative therapy like massage or chiropractic or osteopathic or cranial psychotherapy or whatever, we’ll do that, too.

So it’s all about finding the right tool for the patient and considering their unique context, their case, and also in some cases, their sensibilities because they’re the ones who have to live with the consequences of what you recommend. And I’ve been amazed by the resiliency of patients like a cookie-cutter approach to me just becomes more and more ridiculous as I get older and older, which is why I just, you know, the more I practise, the more I sort of laugh at people who worry about guidelines and expert opinions and what the committees and the experts think.

I mean, those guys have no idea how to actually get patients better. So that’s how I got to where I’m at, very interested in outcomes, very interested in results from my patients and I refuse to settle for a lot of the dysfunctionality that people take for granted is just their doom or destiny. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:06:49] Which is an interesting way of entering med school, isn’t it? Having been exposed to all of that and then going to the creme de la creme of the top of the health care trees, supposedly, you know, you go to med school, and given that exposure, med school takes on quite a different context, doesn’t it? How did you find yours? How did you find your medical education?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:07:17] If I had to sum up modern medical education in one word, it would be farcical. Because you’re charging the government and patients enormous amounts of money to do things that are largely unnecessary. What I mean by that is this, 99% of people who are hospitalised anywhere in the world right now for anything are doing a lot of obviously bad things all day and they don’t seem to care. A lot of them don’t understand that they’re harmful for them. And I can just tell one story after another. A lot of what I do with patients is to make sure that they’re dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s sometimes on basic stuff.

Or example, somebody came to me once with very severe sneezing fits that were impairing their ability to work. One of the things I urged them to do is check their homes, ventilation system. And she swore up and down, “No, there’s no problems. We haven’t inspected, blah, blah, blah.” Well, on the whole, you know, two or three months later, we get these allergy tests back and she’s got this raging allergy to a fungus mould that’s a common component of water damage in buildings.

And I say, “Hey, look, are you sure there’s no water damage in your building?” And she comes back to me. She says, “You know, as a matter of fact, there’s a lot of water damage to the underside of the house.” And she remediated it and her symptoms went away.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:08:37] Now, I cannot tell you how many doctors I’ve shadowed in the world of allergy, pulmonology, ENT who don’t actually hold their patients’ feet to the fire and get them to actually figure that out because guess what? So long as they check all the boxes for the insurance companies, so long as they submit all the right paperwork, so long as they follow all the rules and follow all the guidelines, their payment is exactly the same. And that is not how I work.

I work on retainer, which means that if I get somebody such good results that they don’t have any more questions and they’re busy living their lives. I get to go out and play another game of Tennis. And if I haven’t gotten them better, I get to spend another 30 minutes on the phone with them trying to figure out what I’m missing. And darned if it isn’t those little things. “Oh, now you tell me your h back system has mould in it.”; “Oh, now you tell me you’re drinking tap water.”; “Oh, now you tell me you’re still eating Cheetos and HoJo’s and Triscuit at 11 o’clock at night on a Friday.” You know? So that’s a lot of health care and it’s creating this epidemic of disease.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:09:47] Now, the reality is doctors and scientists are totally focussed on the wrong metrics, the wrong interventions, because of basically how the pharmaceutical industry has corrupted the practise of medicine away from its foundations. And part of my journey as a doctor was, or a big part I would say is, really going coming home to ideals that have always been the convention and that is when we talk about Conventional Medicine and people think, “Oh, hospitals, doctors, drugs, surgeries.” — No, no, no, no, no, no.

The convention, if you think of it as starting with the founder and father of Western Medicine, who canonically is considered to be Hippocrates, he said, “The greatest medicine of all is teaching people how not to need it.” Which means his goal was to get his patients off of medications, which is my goal. I don’t use supplements forever. I don’t tell people to come back in for another injection every month for the rest of their life. I want to figure it out. I want to put the problem to rest and I want them to come back and tell me about how great their year was next year for an annual physical. That’s what I want to do because it’s so much fun. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:10:51] Yeah, well, this is music to our ears, Leland, because you know, I’ve often said that our current health care system is actually a chronic disease management system, which is a great economic model. There’s no question about that. It’s generating billions of dollars, in fact, trillions of dollars. The only problem with it is it’s not a great health model.

So you and I know your background initially was through Environmental Medicine, which is also, you know, your example there of the mould is a classic one because people could be on the best of docs, taking the best of supplements and meditating to the nth degree. But if their house is full of mould, we’re behind the eight ball right away.

Environmental Medicine

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:11:35] But when we talk about Environmental Medicine, there is one aspect of it which I’m looking forward to talking to you about, and that is that wonderful thing that happens every day. As the sun rises above the horizon and then sits behind us wherever there’s some really important part of our day for many reasons. And you’ve been, that’s an important part of your approach to health care. Tell us a little bit about how you came to look at “Light in shaping life. That concept of “Light in shaping life.”

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:12:08] Yeah, absolutely. So “Light in shaping life” is not a phrase of my own invention. It’s a book by, again, Roeland Van Wijk, who’s I think he’s Dutch or Danish. And I heard about that book through Dr. Jack Kruse, who’s a neurosurgeon, who is the person who introduced me to the concept of Light as a therapeutic and also as a poison, because if something can be a medicine, it can be a poison, as my mentor, Dr. Rebecca likes to say. 

So I got introduced to that because I was working at this very intense wellness clinic in Florida where people would fly in and be treated for weeks or months or even years for complex chronic illnesses. And I was very frustrated by the fact that some of these patients were not getting better, despite all of the extreme things that we were recommending to them. And I joined up because I saw amazing results and people do get amazing results doing extreme things. 

But, you know, the thing that really bothers me about a lot of therapeutics is and this is so funny, I was just listening to the radio today and I heard about the study coming out of the University of Chicago where they found out that or they’re hypothesising in their initial study results suggest that small doses of laughing gas may be effective at treating Depression. Well, no kidding, right? You’re altering respiratory mechanics in the body using a volatile gas that has properties as an immunomodulator and a neurotransmitter.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:13:34] And did you know that all those pathways are affected by things in the environment like light or the sinonasal microbiome or blood flow into the sinuses, which are affected by things like your diet? Do you have a normal arginine level? Are you transforming nitrogen-based amino acids in the proper way? Are you getting sunlight on your skin? It will induce the production of endothelial nitric oxide. And I’m thinking to myself, this is yet another example of academics coming in with a very expensive, procedure-based solution in an office seemingly in total ignorance of all the natural mechanisms that life has to modulate itself and these different pathways.

So anyway, I got interested in light because a patient brought it to my attention and said, look, we’re doing very extreme things here and we all think that’s great. We’re all on board with that, you know, eyes wide open, adult patients, consenting adults. But there’s other stuff out there that we don’t know about and we’re not doing in this clinic and I just followed up on it. And, man, what a deep rabbit hole to fall down because there are hundreds of years of research on Light Therapy and it even goes back to the ancient Greeks. The Oath of Hippocrates starts with the line, I swear by Apollo the Healer, Apollo the God of the Sun is the healer.

And darned if my patients aren’t very clear with me that their illnesses are worse than winter and better in summer. There are caveats to that. There are some that are the opposite. And we can talk about why that is because it’s a really fascinating point that gets into Virology, which is a hot-button topic right now. But yeah, I fell down that rabbit hole and just wanted to know everything about how light was shaping life, because the more I read, the more it made sense of things I’d seen for years and couldn’t make sense of. 

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:15:26] I can’t tell you how many people I’ve met over the years who eat a pristine, careful, organic, grass-fed, non-GMO, free trade, gluten-free, soy-free, dairy-free, blessed by the Dalai Lama diet. And they’re not healthy. And they’re just scratching their head, you know, “How can I not feel well despite having eaten an organic a sible with Brazil nuts for breakfast and a gluten-free, spinach wrap for lunch and a free-range chicken breast with roasted vegetables for dinner?”.

And the answer is not, “Oh, try another diet.” Because a lot of them will tell you, they’re coming to me because it’s easy to try new diets and you just Google different fad diets and you get 20 different options. And they’re coming to me because they’re like, “Look, I’ve already tried Carnforth, I’ve already tried Paleo, I’ve already tried this, already tried that, or I’m on this diet and it’s everything. I think I know how to eat and I’ve got to expand my template because I’m losing my mind. What can I do to fix my gut so that I can tolerate food again to be a normal person?” That’s the kind of concept I get.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:16:36] And light being part of that missing link because after you’ve identified all of those terrific nutritionals and you’ve sorted out the environment through the mould in the house, the missing link is this light. Tell us about what Light Therapy is.

What is Light Therapy?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:16:55] So Light Therapy is, you know, I mean, any light administration that will build health, resiliency, or reverse disease. And in order to get into light therapeutics, you first have to ask the question, well, “How can, what effects does light exert on life?” This is basically broken down pretty easily through the different portions of the electromagnetic spectrum. So the radio and microwave radiations nature never uses, which I find remarkable, is a lot of controversy about whether or not cellphones, Wi-Fi routers, Bluetooth, smart this smart that, is harmful to people.

And my question to people who think that it’s totally harmless is simply this, “If life can create every frequency of light up to Ultraviolet Type C light, why doesn’t it use radio and microwave radiation?” It can make everything else. And you’re telling me it just decided to avoid radio and microwave radiation? Because what? It was too easy to make it because it’s the lower energy, it’s less energy and energy-intensive.

The fact that life uses UVC light in order to signal cell division is amazing. What’s even more amazing than that is that most doctors and scientists have absolutely no idea that that’s true. And they think it’s some kind of wacky hocus pocus just because they’re too busy doing whatever it is they’re doing to go out and bother to read the research papers by guys like Fritz Popp.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:18:19] So generally speaking, light therapeutics come down into, in my mind, like three different options. This is very broadly speaking, and it excludes many medical devices like PMF devices or radiofrequency ablation for things like hyperhidrosis and all kinds of stuff that I don’t actually know very much about, frankly. But you have red and Infrared light. Red and infrared light helped to build the exclusion zone of water in the cell ala Gilbert Ling, Gerald Pollack. 

There are these interesting theories about how energy is generated in the cell using light rather than using chemical energy substrates like ATP, which again are in the blind spot of almost everybody in cell and molecular biology. And there are also some really interesting effects that those frequencies have. And this is part and parcel of how they work on enzyme mechanics in your cells.

The best paper I’ve seen on that, most interesting anyway, is one that had they dosed mice with a toxin and this is in Pathologist book, The Influence of Ocular Light Perception on Metabolism in Man and in Animal. Published in 1979. They did a study where they exposed two different groups of mice to the same toxin at the same dose, and then different lethal facts or different toxic effects based on the light the animals were under. Which should imply that anyone who’s being admitted to the hospital with an acute poisoning event should be kept under a very strict light regimen. They’re not because nobody in modern academic medicine knows anything about this research.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:19:51] Red and infrared very healing, help with energetic production in the cell. Bright Light Therapy, which most people know as SAD Light or Seasonal Affective Disorder Lights. I don’t know how much of that is happening in Australia because you guys are so close to the equator. But here in the United States or anywhere in a high latitude, you have a Light Deficiency Syndrome in the winter, which is called Seasonal Affective Disorder. 

But it’s really the predictable consequence of people living in a dim world. The brighter the light that’s hitting your eye and the more intensity there is, basically the visible light, the higher your production of hormones and neurotransmitters is going to be. 

This translates into changes in mood. It translates into changes in signaling pathways that affect certain diseases of the skin. Autoimmune diseases like Malaspina, Psoriasis, Eczema, Acne. All of these things can be modulated by the amount of visible light in the environment, and this is one reason why people will clearly tell you that their skin illnesses vary from summer to winter.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:20:49] The other thing that they’ve all been told, they’ve been told that the reason for this is actually Vitamin D. Saying that vitamin D is the reason that the sun is healthy is a little bit like saying that Magnesium is the reason why eating plants is good for you. It’s a very simplistic approach to a very complex thing. That’s that last piece of Light Therapeutics for me as Ultraviolet Light — UVA and UVB light both have different effects on Human Biology.

UVA induces the production of melanocytes stimulating hormone and has a whole cascade of effects on metabolism, energy production, hormones, etc, etc.. One of the things you’ll see in the Lyme, Chronic Lyme mould world, and I want to be clear, I don’t necessarily agree with the premise of those diagnoses, but that world they’re very obsessed with are very interested in alcohol, melanocytes stimulating hormones being low.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:21:41] There is a correlation between people who have low alpha melanocytes stimulating hormone and being sick or chronically ill. Those people also tend to be indoor people. Some of them, it’s because they can’t stand the light. It’s very intense and they have photophobia or they get sunburned very easily, but that’s all linked to other problems. 

Then UVB light is what produces Vitamin D in the skin, which has a whole host of signaling cascade effects. And obviously, all of this is so pertinent right now, are irrelevant right now, because all of the diseases that we’re seeing in modernity that have set people up for premature death, disability, and vulnerability to infectious diseases, whether it’s a flesh-eating bacteria that comes out of nowhere or an opportunistic chi I pathogen or virus, some nature. 

All of these things come back to and their rise has really been predicated or it’s been coincidental with our move from the outdoor environment to the indoor environment. From brightly, naturally-lit environment to an artificially-lit, dim, indoor environment.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:22:52] Of which putting people in lockdown doesn’t actually help that very much in another public health message to stay out of the sun to protect yourself from cancer is ironic, to say the very least. I mean, our relationship, we’ve actually been, the sun has been demonised and its effect has been quite dramatic. Tell us a little bit about some of the diseases that are actually affected positively by our exposure to those lights.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:23:26] You know, it’s funny you should mention that there are very few diseases that are not, that do not respond to therapeutic doses of sunlight, and the reason I say it that way is that if I say the sun cures all these diseases, that’s too simplistic. If you misbehave enough, you can manifest any disease. But the sun, generally speaking, helps mitigate a huge proportion of the illness that we see in modern life. And also in the ancient world, I mean, that’s why it was, I swear by Apollo the Healer, I swear by, you know, the God of Winter, of the opposite, Hades and death has always been associated with darkness and the lack of light. 

And so the effects of light on our systems are so complex. It really defies anyone’s ability to summarise but the data is so clear that the benefits of sun exposure are outweighed relative to the risk of skin cancer. And so we see this and things like the Melanoma in Southern Sweden Trial, which is sort of the flagship study of this whole ‘the sun is good for you,’ shall we say, meme.

They saw that the risk of death in the people who avoided the sun the most was the same as the people who didn’t avoid the sun at all but smoked the most. So it’s equivalent as a risk factor for all-cause of mortality is smoking and all the other papers I’ve looked at on this and there are many show that there is a mortality benefit or decrease with sun exposure and that it outweighs the risk of skin cancer. When you look at the numbers, it’s very clear.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:25:05] And you also have to remember, right? 12000 people or so in the United States, it’s slightly less than that die every year of skin cancer. Well, last year was like 3.4M people died. You do the maths. It’s a very low percent chance of skin cancer. And so the dermatologists will say, “Yeah, I know, but I see a lot of skin cancer and I want to prevent it.” Yeah, I know. But for every case of skin cancer, you may prevent, there may be a patient showing up in the hospital with an advanced solid internal tumour malignancy that’s metastatic that we didn’t catch because it’s not on the skin.

It’s very easy to catch a skin cancer compared to, say, colon cancer. Compared to breast cancer. Compared to stomach cancer, or any other kind of solid organ malignancy. And so the idea that, you know, I joke with people that if the sun causes cancer, that’s going to make people fat. It’s a very simple way of looking at it. We are not simple systems. You have to have a complex, nuanced view of this or you’re going to make big mistakes, like thinking that just because you wear sunscreen, you’re not going to get skin cancer. 

The data is not clear on that. What kind of sunscreen? When? For how long? You know, how much sun exposure did you get without sunscreen? Was your Vitamin D normal? What did you eat? Did it provide you the Vitamin D that maybe you didn’t get from the sun? All these factors play a role in whether or not the patient gets sick, stays sick, or gets better.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:26:29] I mean, we know intuitively that being out in sun makes us feel better. I think most people do feel that. Isn’t it wonderful to be out when the sun is great? Well, tell us a little bit about why that sun is so good for us. What’s actually going on?

Infrared Light & The Sun

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:26:46] Sure. So starting with the red and infrared portions of the spectrum, right, that energy is being used by your body to expand its exclusion zone, to increase cellular energy generation. This is one reason why people so often say that they feel more energy during the summer months and when they’ve spent a certain amount of time outside. It’s also why we’ll see increases in actual energy production in people who are treating with photobiomodulation. That’s red or infrared light therapy.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:27:17] The second effect comes from the effect of visible light. Every visible light photon that your body absorbs essentially is sending a signal to your body that it is daytime and it can have, it exerts an effect that increases your levels of hormones and neurotransmitters. And those have a very powerful cascade of effects on your biology. And to make a long story short, you want strong circadian rhythms, which is what bright light really fuels, and you want these big peaks of neurotransmitter and hormone production. And then you want these deep in indeers. You want to have a really big diurnal rhythm to your hormones and neurotransmitters.

That’s blunted in a lot of diseases and it’s blunted with aging and you can blunt it by living in a dimly lit environment and then being exposed to lots of light at night because you’re basically screwing up your body’s whole perception of the day-night cycle. Now, over time, that compounds into, because what you have, what’s happening with these circadian rhythms is really that at night the body is taking out the trash. And if the body is constantly on, it says, “Oh, well, we got to keep going.”

Because if you have a life or death situation at night that’s keeping you awake, your body doesn’t second guess you. It says, “OK, well, we’re going to take out the trash tomorrow night.” That’s why you’ll have this rebound sleep effect. If you’re sleep deprived for a couple of days, nights, weeks, whatever, you’ll have a catch-up effect. We have some nights we want to get 10, 11 hours, maybe have an afternoon nap. Right. Your body is trying to catch up for, you know, burning the candle at both ends for a certain amount of time. So you want to have, and in nature, really all these things are yolked.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:29:00] And when I say yolked, what I mean is they’re linked and they’re equal. So everywhere you’ve got a very long data and summary of an equally long night during the winter and so you would you must assume that during the winter, these organisms, people living in these cold places, they have more time to regenerate, rejuvenate and get better. And when you deprive people of that time by giving them artificial light, that allows them to stay up virtually forever, you’re just delaying taking out the trash to the point that the body can no longer cope. And this is why things like Alzheimer’s disease have only been discovered post the invention of artificial light.

There’s a lot of other sorts of factors in that. Illness and we could talk for a long time about that, but it’s one of those things people who are exposed to excessive artificial light at night have more cognitive decline. That’s why I’m one of the reasons why I think I have this right. I think Dale Bredesen is in the big Alzheimer’s research. He’s got light and sleep, certainly in his protocol, because it’s obvious that insufficient sleep, poor sleep leads to Dementia.

So you need that bright light. That’s what keeps your circadian rhythms on point and helps your body to rest and regenerate at night and then be active during the day. And then you need UV light because it has all these effects on, really a lot of different hormone and neurotransmitter systems. Your endorphins are modulated by this. Your endocannabinoid system is modulated by this. Your sex hormones are modulated by UV light. Vitamin D is created by UV light. 

All these things are vital to health and wellness. So when you’re chronically depriving yourself of ultraviolet light, what you’re really doing is hamstringing your normal native biology that relies on it and is used to having it in a state of nature that we’ve really interfered with, with modern buildings and windows and so on and so forth.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:30:56] It’s not just our lack of exposure to sunlight, but it’s what we do to almost make to challenge it even more with, well, what we’re doing right now. You and I are sitting in front of our computer screens. We have LED lights. We have a lot. And the impact of that is a double whammy if you like, isn’t it?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:31:20] Yeah, it is. People don’t realise how the frequencies of light are balanced in nature and a very imbalanced in a lot of lighting. And my favourite paper on this is Melatonin The Optics of the Human Body by Scott Zimmerman and I can’t read the other guy’s name, but it’s a great paper. 2019, I think, was the year they published it. And they really give people a great breakdown of how visible only lighting is a hazard, modern health hazard.

And so for people who don’t know, like incandescent lighting, the original artificial fake manmade light, was it the filament? And the electricity flowed through it and heated it up and then heated up to such a degree that it created light. And if you are familiar with Metallurgy, you know that when you heat up a piece of metal. First, it radiates heat. You feel the heat, that’s infrared light. Then it turns red, then it turns yellow, then it turns orange. Then it turns white-hot. And with lighting, we started out with only the ability to produce visible light when we had a significant proportion of light accompanying it that was in the red in the infrared spectrum. 

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:32:28] When you look at the solar spectrum with the spectrum of light that’s emitted by the sun, it’s very heavy in the red and infrared light wavelength. And so our bodies are adapted to that and this is why red and infrared light therapy are so powerful therapeutically. And it’s also why they’re being investigated now more than ever for the treatment of ocular diseases like, say, Macular Degeneration or Premature Presbyopia — the aging of the eye, really. 

When you eliminate that light, which has this powerful effect on energy generation and cellular metabolism, and you’re only submitting the cell to visible only light. Visible only light has a lot of, it’s actually a stress on the cell and it can destroy many of the biomolecules that we depend upon for our health. Now, it’s not so much that you want to avoid blue and green light because it does have positive effects on your biology. But out of the proper context, it really becomes a liability.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:33:29] And in nature, it’s always balanced by this red and infrared light that had the sort of healing effect right alongside the stress of green light, which is one reason why we think now that, and like I said, visible only lighting is a health hazard. And really the healthiest lighting for people is actually going to be incandescent lighting and that’s what I have in my office.

People are using LED lights. If they don’t produce any heat, they don’t produce any infrared light and so people are constantly exposing themselves to this very high intensity, visible light only photons which are associated with premature aging disease. And so that’s why I use incandescent bulbs. It’s why I get sun exposure to maximise the amount of sunlight that comes into my office. And that’s another reason. I mean, it’s one of the reasons why I actually don’t wear sunglasses because I want to be getting natural light into my eye.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:34:23] And you mentioned that great paper by Zimmerman on Melatonin. Just to remind us about I mean, there’s a book I know called Melatonin: The Master Hormone, and it’s about four or five hundred pages long. So there’s a lot more to it than just giving us a good night’s sleep. Tell us a bit more about Melatonin.

Melatonin & Circadian Rhythms

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:34:42] Yes, it’s the master hormone, and the paper that really brought this home for me in terms of its clinical impact was this case that was reported in the New England Journal of Medicine in the 1980s of this young man who had, they weren’t sure why he had this, but he had a lack of testosterone and he wasn’t developing normally was a teenager. He was clearly a late bloomer, his parents, and he became concerned.

They wanted him to have a normal life. They wanted him to go through puberty and when they tested this kid’s melatonin level, it was sky-high. And what they did was they treated him with testosterone agonists or testosterone and he ended up going through puberty. And then years later, he was able to stop testosterone but the theory that they advanced in this paper is, oh, well, this kid had something weird that was causing him to have super high levels of melatonin. This resulted in a suppression of his gonadal access and a lack of puberty or delaying the onset of puberty.

And when you look at melatonin, the effects on all the other hormones, it’s far from straightforward, but it’s very clear that it’s an extremely complicated dance. It has an effect on all the other hormones. I’ve read a lot of papers on this, and I can’t give you a clear answer because it isn’t simple. It’s not like, oh, well, you know, if you suppress melatonin, you’ll have low progesterone. If you suppress melatonin of high oestrogen or if you suppress melatonin, you’ll have high testosterone. It’s not that simple. There are many other factors.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:36:03] But what it does is it really in trains or circadian rhythms and it brings our organ systems into alignment in their circadian rhythms. That’s important because let’s say that you eat a lot at night. You’re sending your gut a circadian signal that it’s the day. If you’re light, that you’re being exposed to and your eye has a different circadian rhythm, we might hypothesise then that your gut is not going to be on the same schedule as the rest of your body. 

Well, if that’s happening, then might we see an increased rate of disease in that organ system relative to other people who don’t do that thing at night. And indeed we do. We see a lot of abnormal labs and a lot of abnormal physiology and disease and people who eat at night or who are active at night, who work the night shift, who are exposed to artificial light at night.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:36:57] So Melatonin is really in the signaling molecule that mediates all of these effects of light. I shouldn’t say all of them, but many of them. And really, it’s where people need to realise you can talk about melatonin, you can talk about light, but it’s a little bit like talking about the tires in the road. They are interacting and you’re not talking about a car driving on a road without talking about tires, without talking about the road. 

They are so closely linked and to talk about one without the other is really almost purposeless. And every statement that I’ve made in this podcast so far about light, we can talk about the biomolecules that really signal those effects and those changes because it’s all being mediated by actual biological or biomolecules matter.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:37:49] I mean, another thing that people have become very aware of is the microbiome. And they often think, well, I need more fibre, I need to change my dad, I need fermented foods, etcetera, etcetera. But the light also has an impact on microbiome. I wonder if you could talk to us a bit about that.

The Microbiome & Polar Bears

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:38:09] Right, and so this is an interesting and emerging area of the research because it’s very hard to isolate these variables but there is evidence that if you illuminate people with a certain light, you’re going to change their microbiome. And if you look at someone’s metabolism as just as much being about the light they’re emitting as the fuel they’re burning. Because of somebody who’s burning more energy is making more light in their mitochondria, because every one of these biochemical reactions where you’re combusting a substrate, whether it’s a fatty acid or an amino acid or a carbohydrate, is releasing some kind of light energy.

So when you change someone’s metabolism, you aren’t just changing their biochemistry, you’re changing them biophotonically. That kind of blows people’s minds, but it’s true. Yeah, so when you change the light and someone’s living under you, can’t have an effect on their microbiome and it’s very difficult to say what does this do to you. Right? Because if you’re giving someone, say, a dose of UVB light that changes their microbiome because of an effect on their immune system, well, then you affected it through their immune system.

But let’s say that you increased the amount of time they have at night to recharge the battery in darkness. Well, maybe what you do is you increase their melatonin levels and this had another effect on their immune system and maybe you change their eating habits. So they’re eating suddenly at a time-restricted window because they’re getting less light and it’s making them less hungry and they’re less active and they’re going to bed earlier or they’re sleeping through the night because their cortisol is better modulated and all of a sudden they’re not feeding the bugs with the sugars that they used to be eating at 11 o’clock at night.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:39:54] I mean, many patients come to me having GIL issues because when they eat certain foods and it’s not necessarily that they’re allergic to the food, it’s that they’re eating a food that is fuelling a microbial population that is overgrown. And when they fast, they feel better because that microbial population is quiescent, is not active. You treat them with an antibiotic and antifungal or anti-parasitic, you knock that out, all of a sudden they can tolerate that food again.

So and what’s funny about treating and treating people with antibiotics is what we really doing is you’re inhibiting the ability of the bacteria, the yeast, the fungi to metabolise things which then causes them to die because their metabolism is broken and they can no longer transform biomolecules, but they can also no longer be photonically active, so to speak.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:40:47] I mean, I think the other thing about the impact of light and the seasons is that if we are eating seasonally, that is what we’ve evolved to do over our entire human journey. Apart from this more recent time where we have foods available to us 24/7, 52 weeks of the year. There’s no, seasonality has gone out of the windows. Well, hasn’t it?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:41:14] Right. And I like to joke. And it’s I mean, it’s true, but I joke about it because I don’t know what to do but laugh about it. It’s so sort of tragically funny, right? We’re the only animal on planet Earth that’s smart enough to eat a little nonlocal, nonseasonal diet and dumb enough to argue about what we should eat. Yes, everybody everything else on planet Earth is like, “Oh, there’s food over there. I’m going to eat it.” And it’s really interesting to talk to Biologists about this because they’ll actually tell you people have these cute ideas about, “Oh, you know, the deer, these cute little vegetarians.”.

No, no, no. If a deer wanders across a baby bird nest on the ground-nesting birds and they realise there’s an egg there, they’ll eat it. Animals will eat anything. And, you know, the more of a scavenger they are, the less picky they are about their meat, right? Our closest cousins or relatives, taxonomically speaking, are pigs and bears.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:42:10] Yes.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:42:11] You can draw analogies to, say, lions and tigers. And it’s very much involved with the carnivores thing, but we’re really closer in our digestion to these other omnivores. And it’s interesting because they don’t think about what to eat. And, you know, there’s not an epidemic of COVID in the bear population or in the pig population.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:42:32] You’re drawing these analogies with bears and in particular polar bears. Polar bears are, you know, have taught you an important lesson. And I wondered if you might share that with us.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:42:43] Right. So, yeah, polar bears, one of my favourite teaching cases, because they really illustrate how life has to cope with extreme light environments and people who don’t appreciate the power of light in their own life because they’ve never really thought about it. You sort of point out to them how dependent life is on light in high latitudes. They begin to appreciate what it can do to them no matter their latitude.

And polar bears are one of our closest cousins and they’re the furthest north dwelling of all the bears. They also technically live on the sea ice much of the year, and they live in such a cold place that if they miss time, things like reproduction or leaving the den or if they make mistakes and where they build their den in the winter, it’s a lethal mistake to lethal error.

Their cubs may freeze to death or may starve to death, which is sort of, I mean, if you’re freezing to death in a very cold place, there’s a good chance you’re starving because otherwise, your body would increase its metabolism to burn energy or burn fuel or food, I guess, for heat.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:43:53] And so everything about Polar Bear Physiology is optimised in order to take advantage of seasons of abundance, summer and then burn off all that fat in the winter in their dens when it’s extremely cold and we see seasonal variations in the microbiomes of the bears because what they’re eating is changing radically. And we see changes in their metabolism happening with this as well.

And the sort of chicken or the egg question is:”Is the bear’s metabolism changing because of the light? Or is the bear’s metabolism changing because of what it’s eating?” And this is something that academics may argue about until the end of time. I just know that my patients get really sick when they eat a lot of food at night and never really rest in the absence of excessive blue and green light.

And the way the polar bear physiology is put together is just an absolutely amazing phenomenon of how they’re wired into their environment to do really extreme things like gain their body weight over one hundred, something like they gain one hundred percent of their body mass so they double their weight and then they drop it back, obviously, in the winter. I mean, imagine doing that in a season. It’s an incredible metabolic feat and they’re obviously very carefully adapted to it. But it just goes to show you how much what you eat and the light you’re living under can affect your biology because the same pathways that were present in the polar bear are present in us.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:45:21] So what lessons do you learn from that analogy, from that, you know, the study of polar bears and what can we take from it as humans?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:45:32] Yeah, so people who live in ignorance of the therapeutic and toxic effects of light are going to have diseases that frustrate their physicians and playing them and gradually get worse and worse and worse and worse and worse.

And the minute you start turning light into a therapy, you begin to see amazing results in yourself and patients. In my own health, I saw a tremendous benefit from blue blockers. I went from being a very sleep deprived medical resident or trainee to being somebody who could finally sleep through the night again. It didn’t happen without fixing my light environment and it’s happened for patient after patient. I’ve had patients who had weird ocular diseases that their ophthalmologists and optometrists told them they were going to be doomed to suffer from for the rest of their lives, disappear overnight when they just fix the lighting environment because nobody brought it up to them.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:46:28] Well, you mentioned earlier when you mentioned blue blockers, and I think we were talking about this before we came on. You know, I’ve got my glasses there. Tell us a little bit for the person who’s not familiar with it. Tell us what the blue blocker is and how we can use it.

Blue Light & Blue Blockers

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:46:45] Yeah. So blue blockers are glasses that block blue light, and they are very effective for a variety of issues. But the number one thing people need to know about them is that they are appropriate in a setting in which the blue light in the lighting you’re being exposed to is excessive. So office workers who can’t change the colour temperature of their screen, people who have to work late at night, doctors, nurses, whoever. They may be into experience stress, headaches, they may begin to experience brain fog, fatigue, simple, just eye strain, the sense that your eyes are tired. All of that can be mitigated by wearing blue blockers.

The tint is the main point that I think patients are confused about, which is simply that the weaker blue blocker is only a block, 10-15% of the blue light. The stronger ones are dark red or orange or amber colour, and they are in a block somewhere between 80-99% of the light.

I want patients to wear those dark red blue blockers after dark and before dawn. If they’re trying to reverse a chronic disease, I want them to be religious about it. The sicker they are, the more they need them and I want them to also be living in an environment and working, preferably in an environment where they’re not being exposed to extremely high colour temperature, extremely bright blue light, especially bright light that doesn’t have any kind of incandescent balancing it out.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:48:14] So, I mean, computers are one exposure. LED lights, which are almost ubiquitous in modern homes, is another one. So I would say these orange tinted blue blockers would go on from sundown as soon as the sun goes down and you’re turning on lights, or if you happen to be sitting in front of the TV or a computer or tablet or a phone or a laptop, you would be wearing these glasses.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:48:45] That’s right. But the caveat is that a lot of screens you can modulate the colour temperature on. And for people who don’t know what colour temperature is, I use the analogy earlier of metallurgy in terms of the intensity or the brightness of a light, and that’s where colour temperature comes from. The lower the colour temperature, the warmer and the less blue and green light there is in the light. The higher the colour temperature, the more blue and green light there is. And it’s so the sun at noon in the summer is something like 6000Kelvin.

And a candle, you know, candlelight dinner is something like 1900 Kelvin. So after dark, I like something that’s 1900-2000Kelvin or a zero blue light LED bulb. That’s not going to disrupt my circadian rhythms. And then if I’m dealing with a screen that I can’t modulate, I will wear my dark red blue blockers to do it for me.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:49:37] And these are the ones the I’ve got the other set which are less they’re the ones that only give you the 10-5% filter. Is that is that the —

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:49:50] Right, I still recommend those people who can’t change the colour of their screen because of, say, a work computer or do people who are working during the day because it will blunt some of the negative effects of the blue light, by no means is it a total panacea. What I think is more important for those people is to keep the screen at a dim setting so it’s not the dominant light that’s hitting their eye. And then to make sure they have plenty of sunlight and natural light coming into their office because that natural light is going to help maintain a normal, healthy globe and then brain behind it glowing over the eye. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:50:33] And when it comes to sunlight, I mean, putting aside let’s accept the burning one skin is not a good thing, but there are many shades of grey between that. How do you recommend people interact with some?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:50:49] So I recommend that people focus on getting natural light in their life at all times of day without burning. And what that looks like, generally speaking, for my patients is, I want you to get outside sometime in the morning for 20 minutes, an hour, whatever you can manage. Even if you’re somebody who gets up and goes to work before it’s light out, if you can get out between sunup and midday, that’s actually still important to me.

Then I want people getting outside in the middle of the day and I want them exposing some kind of skin to the brightest light that they’re under. I want their exposure to be less than causing a burn and they’ve got to be properly nourished, otherwise, they’re not going to respond well to it.

Then I want some kind of natural light exposure later in the day and then after dark, I want people to mimic nature in the sense that blue and green light are usually gone after dark in nature. And that’s how it really ought to be inside of our homes and offices at that time as well.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:51:55] There are exceptions to this like you can’t expect Airline pilots to fly without blue and green light. I wouldn’t want them to. Also people like doctors and nurses making important decisions. Who need to be fully awake for them? Right? So I have no problem with artificial light and, you know, it was my working environment, the hospital, because you just can’t operate without it. So that’s what people need to know. You really want to naturalistic lighting environment and you need to get a certain amount of UV light in your life. Otherwise, you’ll never have a normal Vitamin D level, not to mention all the other effects of UV light. And that is very clearly a recipe for premature death and disability.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:52:36] Hmm. And then Light Therapy. Now, I just showed you before we came on that as I reach across my desk, I’ve got my infrared lamp sitting here on my desk. But tell us about how Light Therapy can be used.

How Can Light Therapy Be Utilised

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:52:52] So light therapy is something that I work with people to come up with tailored protocols for and depending on their situation, but generally speaking, I want people to have a red and infrared light therapy panel somewhere in their life.

Generally speaking, what I’m telling them to do is get a bigger panel and post it and hang it somewhere in there in their home where they’re going to be able to go straight from the shower to the light therapy panel and get 5, 10, 20 minutes in front of it every day. Because the more skin area you have exposed, the greater the effect. And the logical time to do it is right after you showered, for example, in the morning. It’s a great way to start the day.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:53:37] And how long would you be exposed to that?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:53:40] Yeah. So it really varies on the patient. I’ve yet to have anybody overdose on red light. In fact, if anything, my patients have been so enthusiastic about it, they’ll come back and they’ll say, “Yeah, I spent another thousand dollars on red light therapy devices this month because the one I already have is so has had such a profound effect on my life.” So that’s there’s no, I’ve never had anyone tell me they overdosed.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:08] Now, listen, one thing I wanted to ask you about also was COVID. I mean, you know, we’re on a global journey here, aren’t we?

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:54:17] Right.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:17] And I actually see it as a wonderful opportunity with people focussed on health like never before. How are you seeing it? How are you seeing the way it’s been managed and being managed?

The Biggest Health Challenge

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:54:31] Well, I certainly think that’s the sad thing, is that a lot of people are advancing their various agendas on the back of the suffering of others. The agenda to consolidate power in political institutions, in academic, medical institutions. And this agenda to sideline anything that is natural, holistic, preventative in nature, that is not a profitable enterprise or paradigm for these big institutional players.

They would come back and say that I’m a hopeless crank who doesn’t appreciate the magnitude of the data that they have accrued and generated for their interventions to which I would respond. They haven’t taken the time to study natural medicine the way it deserves to be studied and that’s obviously because it’s not going to make anybody the money that, say pharmaceutical sales can make people. And so people need to be aware there is no lobby for sunlight. There is no lobby for natural exposure to the elements. There is no lobby for exercise. No one is mandating gym memberships. Nobody is going house to house offering you fresh fruits and vegetables. Nobody is promoting, you know, natural, wholesome sunlight exposure. Nobody is offering to come in. And as a public health measure, make sure that your ducts and HVAC systems are clean.

People need to wake up and realise that the institutions they’ve entrusted with a lot of their power and an enormous amount of their tax dollars are not adequately defending their interests from corporations and not only corporations but obviously the government officials, bureaucrats, etcetera, etcetera, who really work for those corporations in effect.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:56:23] In the United States, this is the hypocrisy of 2020 and 2021 to me, which is of the same people telling everyone they need to go out and get an experimental therapeutic and the last time we rushed one of these things to market, what happened? 300-400 people died prematurely of Guillan-Barre Syndrome who were young and healthy. So this doesn’t exactly have a great historical track record.

The same people telling people they need to go do that are voting every 5 years like clockwork for a farm bill that empowers the government to give millions and billions, for all I know, trillions of dollars worth of agricultural subsidies to corporations that then turn around and produce incredibly cheap, toxic food that the poorest and most impoverished and vulnerable members of our society then buy with food stamps that are part of the same legislation that made the food cheap in the first place.

The logical conclusion of this is that the #1 and 2 purchases of food stamps in the United States are junk food and soda. And of course, if you look at the risk factors for death by anything in this country, in the world — it’s consumption of processed food. It’s the top of the list.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:57:36] We talked about the importance of light, sunlight. I mean, the irony about that, right, is these are all confounded by one another. The people who go out and spend time in nature tend to eat healthier food. The people who are sitting at home in front of the television tend to eat a lot of cheap processed food. So it’s the same people doing the same things, getting the same outcomes.

All of this is preventable. All of this can be stopped. None of this requires people to give up their individual liberty. And that’s really, I think, been catastrophic for people’s mental health, and it’s also forced people into these really bizarre propaganda machines that are the mainstream media and then the social media that really is feeding people into the mainstream media now. The mainstream media at this point is truly just propaganda. The amount of gaslighting and misinformation and preferential treatment, double standards is just unbelievable that there’s hardly a shred of integrity left. I don’t say it in a partisan sense because it’s really been an equal opportunity crime.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:58:44] Leland, you’ve articulated that so beautifully, and I know your message is one of personal empowerment, empowering people to take control of their own health, which is our brief on this podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. It’s been terrific to talk to you.

Dr Leland Stillman: [00:58:59] Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure. And I appreciate you giving me an opportunity to tell people what’s really going on.


Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:59:07] Well, I normally, as a regular listeners would know, would ask my guest what they think the biggest challenge was for us on our health journey. But, gee, the way he really articulated that at the end of our interview when I just asked him about COVID.. Nailed it completely, I mean, covered all the bases and it is really the message of this podcast, it’s the message of this book.

And that is to understand how public health messages are conflicted. And they are not with the best of public health in mind. And I think one of my disappointments about this COVID, the way we approach COVID is we have an opportunity for how.

If our focus was truly on public health, then, yes, we would be developing all the pharmaceutical interventions to deal with the disease at its worst. And we would do look at trying to develop a vaccine to eliminate it. And hey, vaccines normally take four to five years to develop. Obviously, we’ve got a lot of resources here.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:00:14] But at the same time we would be promoting and encouraging things which improve immune function because that immune function has never been more important because, with a healthy immune system, you avoid the comorbidities which make you more susceptible to the complications of the disease, of which death is the worse complication. 

So this is it was interesting to hear Leland talk about that. And when I was introduced to Leland and I’ve often said to my listeners, please send me your suggestions about who you think we should listen to. And this is a shoutout to two of my listeners. Thank you, Ian and Fernwood, for the suggestions. 

And I actually, that’s how I came to find Leland, and I was attracted to his story because for a practitioner relatively early on in his journey, it’s actually a very interesting story. Before he entered med school, his journey through med school with a very open mind and who he has been mentored by since he set up his own practise and how he’s approaching things. And he articulates things so well. And we’ll have links to his website in the show notes. So please follow that through.

Now, listen, don’t forget to leave us a review on iTunes. There’s the commercial. And here’s another commercial that Unstress with Dr. Ron Ehrlich. The app is also downloadable and that will keep you in touch with the exciting programmes that we have planned for the second half of this year. So I hope this finds you well. Until next time. This is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Be well.


This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health, and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or as a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions.