Gerald Quigley: Mitochondria, CoQ10, and Ubiquinol Introduction

Now, we, today are continuing our journey through biochemistry. This is really the way the body works, and I always think if things are going wrong, it always helps to know why, and also realise that it’s not just a medication that will control the problem, but actually, something has gone wrong at a biochemical level, and we need to address that to restore the body’s natural ability to heal itself.

Now, throughout the Summer Series, we focussed, again, replaying some of our focuses on boosting natural immunity, and one could argue that almost every podcast I do is focussed on that as well and it actually is. Whether we’re talking about environmental issues, whether we’re talking about health issues, mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever this is about boosting immune function, building resilience to deal with the stresses of our modern world. 

Well, today we’re going to explore another nutrient. We’ve talked about Vitamin C and Vitamin D and Magnesium and Zinc, and you’ve heard all of that. And it’s important to understand that none of these things occurs in isolation. 

It’s not just one supplement, it’s actually why a nutrient-dense diet is so critically important and what that actually means is food, be it either vegetable or animal, should be raised grown on a healthy soil because it’s ultimately the soils which provide the 40 or 50 or 60 elements of nutrients that we need. 

So today we’re going to be talking about an antioxidant that you may have heard about before, but it’s worth revisiting. It’s Coenzyme Q10. Well, really a derivative of that called Ubiquinol, but I don’t want to spoil it for you.

My guest today is Gerald Quigley. Gerald is a practising Community, and I would say a Holistic, Pharmacist and also an Accredited Herbalist. Well known for his unique view of health from a holistic perspective. He’s a very popular personality on radio and TV, and he is a regular visitor on The House Wellness radio and TV show, where Gerald offers practical advice in an easy to understand format. 

I’ve known Gerald for many years, and when I realised I had the opportunity to catch up with him, I wanted to share it with you. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Gerald Quigley. Welcome to the show, Gerald.

Podcast Transcript

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:00:00] For a start, I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I am recording this podcast, the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.

Hello and welcome to another Unstress podcast. My name is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Now, we, today are continuing our journey through biochemistry. This is really the way the body works, and I always think if things are going wrong, it always helps to know why, and also realise that it’s not just a medication that will control the problem, but actually, something has gone wrong at a biochemical level, and we need to address that to restore the body’s natural ability to heal itself.

Now, throughout the Summer Series, we focussed, again, replaying some of our focuses on boosting natural immunity, and one could argue that almost every podcast I do is focussed on that as well and it actually is. Whether we’re talking about environmental issues, whether we’re talking about health issues, mentally, physically, emotionally, whatever this is about boosting immune function, building resilience to deal with the stresses of our modern world. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:01:23] Well, today we’re going to explore another nutrient. We’ve talked about Vitamin C and Vitamin D and Magnesium and Zinc, and you’ve heard all of that. And it’s important to understand that none of these things occurs in isolation. 

It’s not just one supplement, it’s actually why a nutrient-dense diet is so critically important and what that actually means is food, be it either vegetable or animal, should be raised grown on a healthy soil because it’s ultimately the soils which provide the 40 or 50 or 60 elements of nutrients that we need. 

So today we’re going to be talking about an antioxidant that you may have heard about before, but it’s worth revisiting. It’s Coenzyme Q10. Well, really a derivative of that called Ubiquinol, but I don’t want to spoil it for you.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:02:17] My guest today is Gerald Quigley. Gerald is a practising Community, and I would say a Holistic, Pharmacist and also an Accredited Herbalist. Well known for his unique view of health from a holistic perspective. He’s a very popular personality on radio and TV, and he is a regular visitor on The House Wellness radio and TV show, where Gerald offers practical advice in an easy to understand format. 

I’ve known Gerald for many years, and when I realised I had the opportunity to catch up with him, I wanted to share it with you. I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Gerald Quigley. Welcome to the show, Gerald.

Gerald Quigley: [00:03:04] Thank you, Ron. Terrific to see you.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:03:07] Yes, it’s lovely. When I heard we were going to be talking, I was so looking forward to catching up with you. You know, one of the things that we’ve explored on this podcast many times is the importance of biochemistry, of how a cell actually functions. Because when it doesn’t function, well, things seem to go wrong. 

And that’s a message I’m trying to encourage people to get their heads around. And an important part of the cell is the power pack. It’s the important part of everything, and that’s the mitochondria. I wondered if we might start with that. What are mitochondria? What is mitochondrial energy? Give us some 101, layman’s terms.

Gerald Quigley: [00:03:45] Layman’s terms, and it’s funny as we talk about energy and we just expect that it happens. We just expect that when we want to generate energy, no matter what age, even your age and my age, we just expect to be able to just put it together and do whatever we’re going to do. But it’s a little more complex than that. And what we don’t realise is that so many of our vital organs, particularly our heart, relies on a constant and ongoing supply of energy.

So in simple forms, we’ve got all the food groups, proteins, lipids, and polysaccharides all feeding into this mixing bowl. And out of that mixing bowl, various processes occur and it’s got, there are all sorts of names for that process. But it all heads down to the production of ATP, so ATP, if we think back to high school biology, it’s the basis of energy in every cell. 

And therefore, the production of ATP has to be maintained, maximised, and particularly as we age, it has to be supported to its maximum efficiency within reason. So at 85, you might be able to do many things, but you can’t probably do the things that you might have been able to do at twenty-five if you and I can remember back that far.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:05:11] Gerald, you’re making too many references to our age now. Come on. Let’s stay on topic here, Gerald. (laughs)

Gerald Quigley: [00:05:18] We’ve been around a long time, Ron. You know, and I mean, we’ve seen lots of developments in health where it becomes, in my view, so focussed and over technicalised that the basics are often missed. This is pretty basic, as it’s basic to have a battery in a car. It’s basic to have an energy producer in our body and logically, that starts with good nutrition. It starts with adequate, adequate sleep. 

Management of stress because they, amongst a number of other things, can impinge on the production of ATP. So we’ve got the cycle, the citric acid cycle, the mitochondrial respiratory chain and in there is the production of ATP and fundamental to that is coenzyme Q10. And coenzyme Q10. We’ve been talking about CoQ10 for a long, long time, and I’ll shorten it to CoQ10.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:06:19] Hmm.

Gerald Quigley: [00:06:19] So this is an enzyme, coenzyme, which is fundamental to the production of that ATP within the respiratory cycle. What we find is, though, that we’re learning more about the role of coenzyme Q10, which just happens just easily as we age, our levels tend to drop away is why our energy levels often aren’t quite what they used to be. 

So in all of this, we’re looking at ATP the primary carrier of energy in every cell. Not just some cells. Every cell. So with this, a concentration of energy production, for example, in our heart, there’s a lot of coenzyme Q10 stored and needed and therefore needs to be replaced constantly. It’s probably why coenzyme Q10 is often referred to in cardiovascular health as being particularly important.

Gerald Quigley: [00:07:20] Now, in an ideal world, we are told if you have the perfect diet which I’ve actually never come across, then we should be able to get adequate levels of coenzyme Q10 from the food we eat. Now, sadly, this lipid-soluble enzyme or nutrient, is really available in food? For me to get 100 mg of coenzyme Q10 a day, I would need to eat 10kg of broccoli. 1.6 kg of sardines, and we probably have to accompany this with a decent bottle of red, but three kilograms of beef, Ron. Now that is just not possible. 

So it’s one of those hustling nutrients that we can’t just get from our food, unlike things like magnesium and calcium and these things that we talk about. And if you aim to get that in your food, you’re doing particularly well because we’re well away from that in the Australian or the Western diet, as you know.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:08:27] Hmm.

Gerald Quigley: [00:08:27] So obviously, supporting it with supplementation makes sense, particularly when you consider how many factors can impinge on, first of all, our levels of CoQ10 and more particularly the role that a special process called conversion helps in our body. So we’ve got CoQ10 and next conversion or reduced coenzyme Q10, which is called ubiquinol. The names can be confusing. coenzyme Q10 is commonly called ubiquinone, but the reduced form is called Ubiquinol. And it’s important to differentiate them because they are completely different.

The reduced form is very much more available. Bypasses many of the little internal processes that require reduction. So if you take a Coenzyme Q10 supplement, it has to be converted to a reduced form. Logically, if you take that reduced form already, which is now manufactured in a completely different and patented way, the reduced form is available basically as soon as you swallow them, so you should take it.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:09:47] I think that as we get older, I know that as we get older, that conversion from ubiquinone to ubiquinol, and I know when you go into the store and you look at coenzyme Q10, which as you mentioned, is often recommended around heart health. 

Interestingly, we, in the dental world, also feel that it has a positive role to play in gingival in gum health care, periodontal health. And that’s not surprising either high energy area. And what I’m saying was the coenzyme Q10 that you see often in supplements is of that ubiquinone level. 

Gerald Quigley: [00:10:25] Yes.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:10:25] And as we get older, that conversion becomes a little more challenging.

Gerald Quigley: [00:10:30] And there are lots of things that can interfere with. And I again, searched some of those yesterday because we’re learning more about that conversion factor. We’re trying to understand why people who take often large doses of coenzyme Q10 probably don’t get the expected outcomes based on what they read and what might be because their ability to convert one to the other is not efficient. 

So you’ve got things like ubiquinol we’re talking here about the reduced form. Levels of those of that can be taken away completely by things like certain medications, particularly the statins that we use to reduce cholesterol. Certainly, oxidation or ageing is just something that tissues have to learn to cope with. Things like the deficiency of factors needed for that biosynthesis and conversion. 

So there are a few enzymes in there that are working away. If you genetically have issues in that regard, then that conversion factor will not happen. The conversion will be quite inefficient and certainly disease sites can affect our conversion rate and our ability to maintain adequate levels of the ubiquinol and the reduced form of the coenzyme Q10.

Gerald Quigley: [00:11:56] Look, it’s exciting stuff because more, generally speaking, how often these days do you meet someone and you ask how they are? “Oh nice, I’m just really tired. Just really tired.” And without going into a lot of the potential disease takes, it’s often about their ability to reduce energy at a cellular level to actually get some energy back. And energy comes with vitality. 

Vitality comes with, in my view, and it’s a long, long bit of string here, but I think vitality comes with optimism and certainly in today’s world, particularly over the last couple of years. If ever, we need vitality and optimism, the day is here because we’re not out of the woods yet. And here’s a way of actually supporting efficient energy production. 

In a perfectly legal and not illegal way, because there are all sorts of things you can buy on the internet promising this, but here is a way of supporting our body to produce energy, particularly organs that are needed, and there’s a range of other health benefits that come along with ubiquinol as well.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:13:08] Now you will come to those in a moment, but you mentioned statins as one thing that compromises. And I remember when statins first came out, they always used to recommend that you check liver function every three or four months, wasn’t it? 

Gerald Quigley: [00:13:21] I remember those days. In fact, you were given a statin, you were given a liver function too strong. Then you were given a statin. And then in three or four months, you were asked to go back and have a liver enzyme test just to see whether your liver was tolerating the statin. Now all of that’s of course, gone. We just use them and we don’t want to demonise statins. They play a role. But it’s been well documented that there appears to be an interference in the levels of coenzyme Q10 because of very similar pathways within the liver. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:13:54] I think I even read once that when one of these statins came off patent, they were going to try and combine it with CoQ10 to re-patent it or something like that. 

Gerald Quigley: [00:14:06] I remember that. I think that was an effort somewhere along the line. But it might be, you know, a lot of good ideas that fell by the wayside.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:14:13] Another issue that we’ve heard a lot about is co-morbidities. You know, the word co-morbidities, and I’m kind of not maybe surprised. It is surprising that so many people in our society, I think I heard a statistic like at least half the population have one comorbidity and many have more than one. In fact, people that have suffered badly in this pandemic have had on average, I think, three or four. So people are on a lot of medications, aren’t they?

Gerald Quigley: [00:14:43] Yes, they are. And this is the way of the world at the moment, Ron. I could facetiously say it’s a pill for every ill, but there’s no doubt if we can, the opportunities we get, particularly you get and I get an expert like Dr Ross Walker. If we can help educate people by becoming empowered about their own health and understanding that diabetes necessarily doesn’t kill you. But if it’s left untreated or treated carelessly, in fact, I read yesterday wherein Diabetes in Australia, amputations are actually, the levels of amputations are arising now in Australia in 2022. That’s an outrageous statistic.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:15:26] Yeah.

Gerald Quigley: [00:15:26] Outrageous because we don’t educate people about us, and I sadly hear from people that are given new insulin pens and things, and they email me and say, How do I use this darn thing? Well, could this be? I should never have been allowed to walk out of a pharmacy without a complete demonstration of how to use it and what it’s all about and the role that it plays. And every disease seems to come with that same laissez-faire attitude. 

If I take the pill, everything will be okay, remember, and I’ve seen male patients in my clinic who would take the statin for three months before their next doctor’s visit, so the doctor would say well done, they’re working, aren’t they? And then as soon as I got out of the surgery, I put them to one side again. 

So we need to educate much more readily patients that are using medications to use them correctly because if they really use them correctly, there’s a chance, and we see it in diabetes, there’s a chance the levels can be reduced.

Gerald Quigley: [00:16:27] And one day with statins, we know that as we age, we actually need cholesterol to function efficiently. And many people find that if they age, they actually come off this statin. So becoming empowered and asking questions often gives wonderful outcomes. 

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:16:43] Well, I loved your… Before we came on you, you were talking about the power of education and the importance of it, which is what this podcast is all about as well. I remember when we first met Gerald, you were described as a holistic pharmacist and of course, as a holistic dentist, I know I often get asked, “What does that mean?” But let’s just take a step, a little bit of step back here because your background is Pharmacy and you’re a Herbalist as well. And I walk into pharmacies now and I think, “Gosh, you’d have to really be holistic. Tell us what a holistic pharmacist is?

Gerald Quigley: [00:17:17] Look. I think that definition, like a holistic dentist, Ron, I think is in the power of the mind of the person who asks you because no matter how you try and explain it, they think you’re a wacko. I think that you should be limited to appearing in a white coat and doing what you do as I think sometimes, but I’m not, I’m not keen on actually being put into a particular pigeonhole. 

We are all health practitioners. And as time goes by, there are more and more Australians who want to move from the illness side of the equation into a wellness side of the equation. And I would contend that we don’t have a health system here, we have an illness system here. And we both come across many people that are OK and concerned about something developing, but they’re often reassured once that develops, then we’ll throw everything at it. 

We’ll fix it, and there’s very little advice given to minimise the risk of particular things developing. So that’s the market. The demographic I’m in and there is like a lot of worried, well Australians, who feel that probably they’re almost missing out because they don’t have diabetes, elevated blood pressure, elevated cholesterol, chronic reflux, all these things that all inmates have a gut. And I think, well, maybe all this stuff’s being missed, but in fact, it’s not. They’re just a healthier individual.

Gerald Quigley: [00:18:43] So I take the role that if you’ve got medicines, that’s wonderful. But many of them will deplete nutrients. Many of them, in fact, have that law of unintended consequences associated with them. And here is a classic that so many things when you look at the role of ubiquinol in the human body, there are so many aspects of that which can interplay with medications that are taking and with positive outcomes. 

And often you mentioned gingivitis before, there is a classic. If you’ve got some gum issues for heaven’s sake, get some advice about ubiquinol because it’s been clinically proven over and over again. It plays a role because guess what, when it comes to your heart, there’s a connection…

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:19:30] Ahh, we’re hearing a lot about that. I’ve often described, I often defined a holistic dentist as a dentist with attitude.

Gerald Quigley: [00:19:39] You got it. Oh, I’m surprised. Ron, you’ve got an attitude. (laughs)

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:19:43] But you mentioned three kilos of beef and two kilos of sardines. But come on, there must be some foods that contain ubiquinol.

Gerald Quigley: [00:19:51] Oh, they do.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:19:51] That and consume on a regular basis.

Gerald Quigley: [00:19:54] But there’s not enough, Ron. There is really not enough, and you can consume human heavens above. Where would we be without a decent steak and a glass of red wine? So, you know, you might get half a milligram of ubiquinol, and that’s okay. But we’re talking here about clinically proven and specific dosages for unexpected and clinically proven for expected and clinically proven outcomes. And that’s where so many of these nutrients, as time goes by, we’ve probably been underdosing.

Gerald Quigley: [00:20:26] In fact, when coenzyme Q10 first came on the market in Australia, we were prescribing 150 mg, probably starting off 50 mg, 150 mg. Particularly in where a lot of the research started, which was in Japan, they were prescribing 600 mg, which the experts here were quite surprised at that. Not only does it show the safety of the particular nutrient, but it probably shows that even then we would probably underdosing. 

And that’s where that conversion rate… We don’t have a clinically proven 150 mg of coenzyme Q10 equals a certain amount of ubiquinol, but it is estimated that there’s probably a four-plus potency change that 150 mg of coenzyme Q10, compared to 150 mg of ubiquitin. 

That once the conversion has happened, that ubiquinol, already converted is giving us about five old 600 mg of coenzyme Q10 in our body. So there is the risk of that estimation. There’s no definitive evidence yet, but it will happen. Nothing is to be proven but to satisfy so many people to say, “Oh well wise one more effective is why one more expensive.”

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:21:47] Why would we take CoQ10, now ubiquinone, when we know the more active form is ubiquinol. Should we not just be going straight… What, is that either redundant? I mean, I know this distinction has come out in the last, I don’t know what, few years, five years?

Gerald Quigley: [00:22:04] Well, three to four or five years. Oh, look, and that really is up to the individual. There are some people that feel that getting the benefits from coenzyme Q10. So that’s the lack of solid-state form, and that’s okay. But if we have the co-morbidities we mentioned or if we want specific clinical outcomes, then I think we owe it. In fact, I would insist that our patients would expect to be told that there is a reduced form available and the clinically proven benefits are probably more evident. But we’re in a free world. 

You can talk about the two. Some people will be happy with one to see how they go, but in the world of nutrition, it’s about education. And we’ve said that before. When you say to someone, “You should take this.” There’s a bit of freedom, a bit of to push back straight away, often depending on how the message is delivered. If you explain there are two options one, we’ll do this, but this other one will probably do it better, then I think most people would probably choose that other option.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:23:08] And what are those? What are those doses that we are now taking or being recommended to take with ubiquinol?

Gerald Quigley: [00:23:14] Look, I prescribe for my patients 300 mg of ubiquinol each morning. And I get wonderful feedback. For various reasons and often can be an economical reason, people say, “Well, look, I’m happy with 150mg.” That’s OK because at least you’re providing your body and your energy production chain with the fuel that it needs to really keep efficiently working. So it’s an individual thing, but the people with specific clinical presentation, so the person with chronic dry eye, the person with having some conception issues from a sperm health perspective, the person who’s taking high dose statins, the person who is an elite athlete who is finding that fatigue is really getting them down, the person that’s working in a highly stressed environment, we might look at nurses at the moment. 

There have been clinical evidence overseas big old trials showing the groups of nurses supported with ubiquinol compared to those not taking it less stress, sleep better and cope with the demanding jobs far better. So maybe the government should be supplying ubiquinol to nurses because they’re really under the pump at the moment and really under-resourced and underappreciated as well.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:24:33] Well, I know. I mean, i’s interesting. You should say maybe we should supply it to nurses because I know when this pandemic started and I was at the time President of the Australasian College of Nutritional Environmental Medicine, we wrote letters through Professor Ian Brighthope, wrote letters to suggest that perhaps Vitamin D and Zinc also had an important role to play. What do you think of those?

Gerald Quigley: [00:24:56] Oh, fundamental. Fundamental. I read a paper that came out of Spain where a COVID hospital full of people and did blood tests on every one of them and every single person had subclinical levels of Vitamin D… Well, the heaven’s sake there’s not a… If that’s not the medical association of issues, what is? 

And even now, I feel sorry for people who don’t understand the role of Vitamin D and Zinc and Vitamin C, for that matter. To me, they’re basic immunes. And I addressed the group of people in the real estate industry yesterday. A hundred and something all of them. And I said, here are the basics of maintaining your wellness and it’s keeping your immune system functioning. 

And it’s just those things- D3 a couple a day, 50 mg of elemental zinc, 30 mg, whatever you’re comfortable with and 500 to 1000 mg Vitamin C. It’s easy. Get some advice. No issues. Just do it. Become empowered for heaven’s sake. Don’t wait for what the system says is going to get you. Do something about it.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:26:00] Yeah, I must admit when the pandemic started, I saw it as an incredible opportunity, an incredible opportunity because we had a global community focussed on health like never before. And rather than hide behind the timelines of chronic disease because heart disease takes tens of years to develop and cancers too, and would be immune. 

But this was happening quickly and co-morbidities made you more susceptible. What a great time to focus on health. I’ve just been a little disappointed that public health hasn’t, you were talking about an ill-health system, not a health care system. I don’t know. We’re frustrated by that too.

Gerald Quigley: [00:26:41] Totally. And I get frustrated within. Not to mention in an average pharmacy, how many people present in a day with prescriptions for chronic disease? Even some sort of printed elementary immune support advice to me is logical, professionally responsible. In fact, I think it’s irresponsible not to offer that, but maybe I’m a little bit right-wing about that because I think people should be offered the information, whether this gets back to that education. 

Don’t leave it to the sites where you’ve got to take it, where you know you go along, you have a blood test and you do levels a 20 and there should be 100 and someone says you got to take three or four capsules a day to get your levels back up there. Don’t wait for that. Just to have a couple each day to maintain your levels up to where they should be. Just make sense. But look, simplicity has just gone out the window, Ron. You know that.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:27:37] It’s an opportunity also to ask you about pharmacies because, in my lifetime and yours too, the appearance of a pharmacy when you walk in has changed so much. I mean, you would have been compounding at the beginning of your career, which is not the… 

Gerald Quigley: [00:27:53] Well, compounding was and we didn’t even have the official title, Ron. Most prescriptions came in that required preparation. It might have been mixtures or powders. Certainly, the tablet form was just before my time and Philip’s time, but we were doing that or that was just the way of the world at that stage. And I think we had less. We practically never had an interaction. 

We never had an adverse effect other than someone whingeing about the taste of a mixture. And we just used to tell them to hang up and just haven’t. Because even your mothers say, if it tastes poorly, then it’s obviously doing something good. Just get over it. Now, of course, we learnt everything was… But yes, look, I think, Ron, as time goes by, there will be differentiation within the stool. And I remember the examples in the US where there are big megastores, but there is the part of a professional service which is staffed by pharmacists. 

And the only disappointing cop there is, I think there should be a pharmacist on the floor. There should be a pharmacist monitoring what’s happening out there in retail land to make sure people, first of all, are able to see his or her advice and guidance and perhaps don’t necessarily buy things that aren’t appropriate because there’s always that risk. And without being just almost walking around with a sign saying, “I’m a pharmacist, ask me.” As simple as that.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:29:26] But I know we’ve used the word compounding and we’ve used it because you and I both know what it means, but we probably should remind our listener what compounding actually was or is still to this day.

Gerald Quigley: [00:29:38] Compounding was tailor-made medicine before individualised medicine became sexy and fashionable. So you went to your doctor and he listened to your symptom, listen to your story and he didn’t type on a keyboard. They actually looked you in the eye, listened, wrote a few notes, handed you a prescription and then you took it to the pharmacy where something was put together specifically for you and perhaps at a later stage changed. Now that’s the principle we’re using. Herbal medicine, and that’s a fundamental and underlying aspect of that.

Gerald Quigley: [00:30:14] So that’s for various reasons, and we follow the US that was thrown out because it’s easier to put it all in a pill and people don’t like taking mixtures and all sorts of things. But there is a swing back now, Ron. Swing back.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:30:28] Yeah.

Gerald Quigley: [00:30:28] People are wanting to take more jiggle options and there is a clear difference and I’ll explain that. So if you want to synthetically change something and let’s look at for something why I the sort of period by. You can take something synthetic for a period of time, which will alter your hormone levels completely. Now that sometimes works out, sometimes it doesn’t. 

You can take a herbal option, particularly one with the clinical evidence to support the claim, which will actually balance your own hormone levels and over time, not tomorrow, the next day, but over time six weeks you’ll find that a lot of the issues that you as a young woman might be facing with all the issues of pain, sugar craving, mood swings, all those things actually start to balance out and life gets better. It’s simple, but it works.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:31:19] Hmm. Another thing that changed. I remember being in Europe probably 15 or 20 years ago, and I’d walk into a pharmacy and in the Netherlands or Germany or something, and you’d walk in and it would be a cornucopia of vitamins, minerals, homeopathy, herbs. 

And I thought, Wow, our Australian pharmacies aren’t like that, but now they are. That raises another area for a pharmacist to be familiar with because you have got literally hundreds of supplements. That’s another challenge for a pharmacist in today’s world, isn’t it?

Gerald Quigley: [00:31:55] Yes, it is. But there’s no need to back away from that because often what you, as a pharmacist, might suggest based on your professional expertise, your prescribing personality, all sorts of others, we’re completely overwhelmed by something that you’ve been seen on television, already in a magazine or so many experts these days, which might be the check out girl at the supermarket who just gives a bit of health advice they can make often suggestions which many people appear as gospel or not. They do a wonderful job, but I think it’s horses for courses.

Look in all of that, and I remember walking into a pharmacy about that same time, maybe 12 years ago in Italy, and there are a few people sitting around and I walked in on this lovely lady, mature lady in a white coat came and said, “Can I help you, sir?” And I said, “Ahh no, I’m a pharmacist from Melbourne, Australia. 

I want to speak to that pharmacist up there.” She said in the best English, “Certainly, sir. Take a seat down there just where there’s a vacant chair and in time, our pharmacist, when she’s helped these other people will come and see you.” “How thoughtful. Thank you.” Okay, there you go. But it’s the expectation, isn’t it? Is the expectation.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:33:11] And what do you say to so-called experts who say there is no evidence to support all this supplementation or herbal medicine? What do you say to the so-called expert and you realise I’m prefacing them with so-called experts? What do you say to that?

Gerald Quigley: [00:33:27] Oh, look, I could just facetiously say I get a life, mate. The evidence and that’s a word which is bandied around, isn’t it? And often in the community, we don’t give that word enough respect. And I often see and you can take a number of different herbs that claims on bottles and claims that are advertised are actually stolen from an actual clinically proven extract. 

And they just attach the claims to it. And then you obviously, if you are choosing a steak restaurant that you can take me to next time we catch up someone that says paddock to the plate but has a probably more attractive sound than someone who just buys bulk meat and then prepares it in some way.

Gerald Quigley: [00:34:15] And similarly, I’ve always been of the philosophy that the companies that do a panic to bottle, and there are many European companies that actually have contract growers that they will only use to make sure that all the steps along the way are actually complied to make sure that their extracts are what they are supposed to be. 

And so this… Look, I think and I’ve pleaded with pharmacy students who I used to give talks to too often, but I think I was considered a bit renegade around so, I don’t do that these days. But I remember a young Indian pharmacy student. So she had her degree and there was just doing the next stage and she said to me, “Look, I’d love to get involved.” and often I get asked, what weekend calls can I do to become a… 

You put that sort of a comment to one side because I like for you probably learn something every day that I didn’t know. And you think, where am I going to store this in my brain? And I say to this young kid, “Now you’re from India?” She said, “Yes.”, I said, “Now, you’re all aware of ayurvedic medicine?” “Yes, I am. My parents use it, my grandparents use it.” And I say to her, “Why don’t you become a pharmacist with a speciality in ayurvedic medicine?” And her eyes lit up, just lit up and thought, and I just thought, just go away and think about it, use an opportunity, and guess what, Ayurveda now starting to creep back into general wellness. 

It’s another modality. A wonderful modality. I’ve done some studies in that, just a wonderful, wonderful modality. Good luck to her. I hope she’s successful wherever she is.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:35:57] We become so pure for the ill orientated. And I think this idea that if it’s not a pharmaceutical product, it doesn’t have a place in our health. I mean, we’ve literally become so brainwashed about that. And you’re drawn on Ayurveda, well, it is three, I think, three or four thousand-year traditions. So, you know, I’ll be interested to see whether our current pharmaceutical model is around in two or three thousand years’ time.

Gerald Quigley: [00:36:24] You and I won’t be here. But when you consider what some of the powerful medicines are, which often come on the market, Ron, and when you look at their mode of action and mind you, I can class paracetamol and that when you look at the Australian Medicines Handbook, which is on my office desk here and you look up the mode of action of paracetamol, it’s clearly is not understood. 

So we’ve got a medicine which is the most potent liver toxic drug on the market, freely available without a prescription, without restriction in most places. And we don’t know how it works. And yet people say, Well, I can’t take that because I don’t understand how it works.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:37:05] Yeah. Well, Gerald, always great to talk to you and before we go, I just want to ask you one question standing, taking a step back from your role as a holistic pharmacist, herbalist, educator because we were all on a health journey through this, in this modern world, as individuals, not just as health practitioners, what do you think the biggest challenge is for an individual on that journey?

Gerald Quigley: [00:37:27] I think the biggest challenge is not to get swept up in the Ferris wheel of medications, and we know that there is an automatic cascade and we need to teach people about, quite simply, information. Now I mentioned it before inflammation or ageing. So if we become inflamed and because we come inflamed and joints start to play up, next to our blood vessels start to play up so we’ve got hypertension. Then our pancreas starts becoming inflamed and we’ve got diabetes.

If we can explain to people that if they had better food options and not this anti-inflammatory diet, that puts too many things in a, you know, pigeon hole, but maximising the good stuff that we eat, minimising the bad stuff that we eat, surrounding yourself with positive friends and keeping well away from those that unload on you, which is hard to do in health, and keeping really well, socially connected. I think the saddest thing and I’ve watched my own mom at 94, who is in low care, fading away because there’s no social contact now that to me should have been initiated right at the start.

Gerald Quigley: [00:38:47] The vulnerable people who have been around and we owe so much to so let’s look after them. You young people. I reckon you can cope with this. Let’s just do what we can, and let’s educate you about the benefits of vaccination so that you will in fact, potentially protect that more vulnerable group over there. 

We used to do it back in the old days. We don’t do it now. We threaten to cajole. And I think the message sadly is being very mixed. So get involved in your health. Get involved. Focus on wellness, not on illness. Just because you’ve got a bit of an aching knee it’s not necessarily osteoarthritis or all the other things you probably means you overwork your knee. Have a look at that. Keep the exercise going. We could go on for hours, Ron.

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:39:30] Well, I wish we could. But listen, you mentioned the connection and it’s been great to connect again with you, Gerald. Always terrific. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Gerald Quigley: [00:39:37] Thank you, Ron. Bye.

Conclusion

Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:39:41] Well, there it is, another nutrient, and that is why we talk about nutrient density in foods, because within natural foods, unprocessed foods, foods that are grown in healthy soils, there are the nutrients and the ability to make nutrients in the body. And I know that Gerald was talking about eating three kilos of meat or how many tins of sardines to achieve that. 

And I think there are challenges in our modern world is getting adequate nutrients, particularly if you are not feeling as well as you could. And energy levels are important, mitochondrial function is critical. I mean, their mitochondria are those little organelles inside the cells, which provide us with energy and interestingly, Gerald was talking about ATP.

ATP is the unit of energy produced in mitochondria, and when your mitochondria go through aerobic metabolism, your mitochondria will produce, say, 36 ATP molecules. When you are not exercising, when your body’s functioning on an anaerobic level, then you will only produce 2 ATP. So this is why exercise is so important and why a nutrient-dense diet is so important. Because when you are functioning optimally in aerobic metabolic, why your body is producing all those ATP is that it potentially could.

What’s interesting also is how this links into sleep, because when we’ve talked about sleep, there are two things which determine how we sleep at night. And one of them is called sleep pressure and the other factor is circadian rhythm. 

So circadian rhythm we’ve dealt with in a few podcasts, and it’s all about how we relate to the sun, to the day and night, the effect that artificial light has and computers and screens have on our circadian rhythm. That’s one thing. But the sleep pressure is something we will do a whole programme on.

But here’s the summary of it. Sleep pressure is about a build-up of the chemical in the body. And guess what, that chemical is adenosine. And remember, ATP is adenosine triphosphate. So this is why a holistic view of health is so important because, on the one hand, we’re talking about nutrients in the biochemistry of the body producing ATP. 

You’ve been told that going out and doing exercise, aerobic exercise, actually just moving walking is good for you because you produce more ATP, giving you more energy. And it was a waste product that we’ve got adenosine building up each and every day. From the moment you wake up, adenosine starts to build up, and that’s why as it builds up, you become more tired and that is what is referred to as sleep pressure. So there’s a link between nutrients, exercise and sleep and the quality of sleep.

Look, this is what makes health so interesting and enjoyable. And as I’ve often said, the more you learn about it, the more you realise you have to learn about it. And that’s a good thing. That’s exciting, and that’s what this podcast is all about. I hope you found that enjoyable. I hope you found that informative. There is so much going on. Don’t forget to check out our website. 

And don’t forget to look for the Holistic Health Institute, which is the producer of this podcast and has been from the very beginning in the background. But it has stepped forward and is now producing some great online programmes. So look out for those. Hope this finds you well. Until next time. This is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Be well.

 

This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health, and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or as a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions.