Amie Skilton on Protecting Yourself Against Electromagnetic Frequency (EMF) in Your Home

Amie Skilton, naturopath and educator, joins us to talk about E.M.F, electromagnetic frequency and EMR electromagnetic radiation.

Amie Skilton on Protecting Yourself Against Electromagnetic Frequency (EMF) in Your Home Introduction

It is actually a story of our indigenous forefathers who have been connected with Australia for up to 120000 years. That is mind boggling. And we have just so much to learn from that history, which has been largely ignored over the last 200 odd years. But it is changing and we hope to be part of that change and champion that as well. Well, I digress.

But today, the podcast is focused on something that we are all exposed to all the time. And like chemicals in our environment, it all seems rather overwhelming until you realize that you actually do have control over the problem.

And in fact, by making informed decisions on the chemical front, you can reduce your exposure to chemicals by up to 80 or 90 percent. Today’s topic is E.M.F. electromagnetic frequency or EMR electromagnetic radiation. But it is surrounding us.

It’s an wi-fi and Bluetooth. It is in many of the devices that are in our homes and in our workplaces, and we are literally bathed in it. So it can seem an overwhelming topic. But today we are going to talk to Amie Skilton.

Now, Amie returns to the show. And I’ve listened to Amie lecture at various conferences that I’ve attended over the years. And she is just a great educator and she is so clear and so concise in so many of her presentations. And I wanted to share this particular one with you today.

Amie is a naturopath who is also a great educator, as I’ve said. And today I’m discussing with her the EMF or ERM radiation in the home and how to take control of it. So I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Amie Skilton.

Podcast Transcript

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:00:07] Hello and welcome to Unstress. My name is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Firstly, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which I am recording this podcast. The Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and pay my respects to their elders past, present, and emerging.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:00:25] It is actually a story of our indigenous forefathers who have been connected with Australia for up to 120000 years. That is mind-boggling. And we have just so much to learn from that history, which has been largely ignored over the last 200 odd years. But it is changing and we hope to be part of that change and champion that as well. Well, I digress.

But today, the podcast is focused on something that we are all exposed to all the time. And like chemicals in our environment, it all seems rather overwhelming until you realize that you actually do have control over over the problem.

And in fact, by making informed decisions on the chemical front, you can reduce your exposure to chemicals by up to 80 or 90 percent. Today’s topic is E.M.F. electromagnetic frequency or EMR electromagnetic radiation. But it is surrounding us.

It’s an wi fi and Bluetooth. It is in many of the devices that are in our homes and in our workplaces, and we are literally bathed in it. So it can seem an overwhelming topic. But today we are going to talk to Amie Skilton.

Now, Amie returns to the show. And I’ve listened to Amie lecture at various conferences that I’ve attended over the years. And she is just a great educator and she is so clear and so concise in so many of her presentations. And I wanted to share this particular one with you today.

Amie is a naturopath who is also a great educator, as I’ve said. And today I’m discussing with her the EMF or ERM radiation in the home and how to take control of it. So I hope you enjoy this conversation I had with Amie Skilton. Welcome back to the show, Amie.

Amie Skilton [00:02:23] Thank you, Ron. It’s so good to be here.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:02:26] Amie, last time you were on, we talked about the home. We talked about some of the challenges in our own home, in the built environment.

And you shared with us a really incredible story in your own journey about molds and mycotoxins. But today we wanted to touch on EMF radiation. And I’m wondering if you might just give us a little bit of an overview of what that means and what we’re actually exposed to.

Amie Skilton [00:02:56] Yes, absolutely, so EMF is a really big subject, and I think whenever we start talking about EMF’s, people already jumped to our EMFs are bad. So I just want to say there were lots of natural kinds of EMFs as well, which are really important for human health. And these are generated fields from that, from the universe, from the solar system that we’re in, and, of course, the magnetic field of the earth itself. And those EMFs are really subtle, very low frequency and things that our genetics have evolved with over millennia and also need for health, actually.

So I just want to be really clear about that, that not all EMFs of the same. That being said, man-made technology is also a huge source of non-native or manmade EMFs that are very different to what human bodies and in fact, all biological life on the planet is familiar with or is really is going to benefit from. So the distinction there is man-made EMFs are problematic and are problematic for a number of reasons.

The nature of them, the way that they influence our biology, but also the rate at which they are increasing. And to give you some perspective on that, in the last hundred years, our exposure to man-made E.M.F.s has increased a quintillion fold. Now,.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:04:38] Quintilion. Wow.

Amie Skilton [00:04:39] Quintillion, which is which if you put 18 zeros after the number one, that’s what a quintillion is. It’s an awful lot.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:04:51] So this is quite an experiment we’re all conducting here, isn’t it?

Amie Skilton [00:04:56] It is. And what makes it really challenging is EMFs are not visible. Unless you have become sensitized to them, you can’t really feel them, at least not in the short term. And so if you would just say, for instance, use the example of if pollution had increased to Quintilian fold and you could see the smog, I mean, you’d be right on that long before it got that out of control.

But without the kind of meters that we use to measure EMFs, you don’t know that there. And you go about your business thinking everything is fine and also that we wouldn’t be exposed to these things if they were unsafe. But unfortunately, that’s not the case.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:05:39] Hmm. It’s interesting to put a figure on it like that because we have been exposed to pollutants in the summer of what was to, you know, last summer, not the summer just past when we had bushfires.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:05:53] And there’s a thing called the air quality index, which says anything under 30 is okay.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:06:01] But in parts of Sydney, it was shocking and it got up to about a thousand. Well, you know, ten times thirty is three hundred. A hundred times thirty-three thousand. So that was you know, that was shocking. Even only a hundred times more. And yet here we are, quintillion times more. I mean, that’s kind of mind-boggling.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:06:24] But to go on.

Amie Skilton [00:06:27] I know it’s very terrifying way to start the conversation is going. But it’s got to be this.

Amie Skilton [00:06:34] This is what makes it so challenging is how you assess that. The other issue with it is whilst we have, you know, using the air quality index as an example, we have limits which we understand to be problematic for human health.

The standards that the industry used to, I guess, set guidelines around EMF exposure are not based on health. And this is where we run into some significant issues whereby you might measure, say, the radiation coming from the cell phone tower and it may be within industry standards, but those standards are not health-based and.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:07:18] What does what are they based on?

Amie Skilton [00:07:22] A completely arbitrary figure that has been agreed upon based on the industry’s guiding the government?

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:07:31] Right, right. OK, that’s so we’re self-regulating.

Amie Skilton [00:07:37] Well, and not to the public’s interest in mind.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:07:39] Right. So what could possibly go wrong with that? I mean, what could possibly go wrong with that? He had to go on.

Amie Skilton [00:07:48] So as a result, when we’re measuring these things, a building biologist or an electromagnetic field testing technician uses a very different set of guidelines to advise someone to change things in their home. And so that they’re the measurements that they use and the standards that they’re making.

Recommendations are based on the evidence in the literature according to health problems that can be induced. And therein lies a huge disparity in terms of what people think is safe, because you believe when you’re buying, say, a modem off the shelf or the latest cell phone from the store, you get it from that.

It’s been tested and found to be safe for human use when in fact, the framework that it’s being tested against has absolutely nothing to do with human biology or the health effects of that device might cause and so the whole world of building biology courses.

Is raising awareness around the health hazards found in the home and the world of E.M.F.s is very specific around the different types of manmade EMFs that people are being exposed to and just don’t know about.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:09:02] Hmm. Well, I mean, we’re surrounded by it. I mean, I’m sitting in my office at home and I’ve got my multimeter here, which, you know, I could be measuring. And I don’t even want to switch it on at the moment because it’ll be too confronting. But what are some of the EMF radiations that we’re exposed to within our own home?

Amie Skilton [00:09:25] Well, this is the thing. You know, many people are concerned about cell phone towers and rightly so, living near substations and of course, the introduction of a new kind of wireless radiation that’s 5G. And we’ll definitely talk about that today.

But in our own homes, we’re being exposed generally too much higher levels from the things that we’ve purchased and installed in our home. And for most people, that will be the cell phones that will likely be the number one source of radiation. But their wireless modem or any smart devices and wireless headphones are other really significant sources of exposure.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:10:11] I know that, for example, the earbuds, I mean, you and I both got our little ported headphones on, but I’ve seen people walking around with earbuds, you know, what do they call what’s the that what they’re actually called. You know what I’m talking about the.

Amie Skilton [00:10:27] I know exactly.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:10:28] You can just touch them and the volume will go up or whatever. And I’ve actually used my mytometer to measure that. It’s a little bit concerning.

Amie Skilton [00:10:40] It’s very concerning, in fact, anything that runs off Bluetooth or is wireless is going to produce sometimes up to 17 times more radiation than a cell phone. And we know that cell phones are not designed to be held to your head and spoken on like that.

The only testing that’s been done has used them for a six-minute increment on a plastic dummy head. And so the wireless headphones, I think, are arguably next to the cell phone.

The most significant issue that people are going to have also because people tend to wander around with them in their ears even when they’re not in use. And so if you work in an office environment like, let’s say in a call center, you’re in customer service, you might just keep that wireless headphone in for ease of use so you can get up and make a cup of tea or just click the button when a call comes through.

Or like I say, a lot of people doing with their own personal cell phones, they’ll use those earbuds and just leave them in, maybe listening to music when they’re not on a call.

But the thing is, those wireless devices are constantly seeking a signal. And so it’s just like talking with your cell phone to your head, you know, for eight hours a day, however long you’re wearing them for. So they are arguably even more problematic than your mobile phone.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:12:06] Hmm. And you mentioned that it’s self-regulated EMF and the industry is reassuringly looking after. I would like to think our interests, but I have a feeling they may be looking after their interests. Surely some research has been done on this. And I know Europe tends to be a little more, shall we say, precautionary about this. What’s some of the research telling us?

Amie Skilton [00:12:34] So there is a huge body of evidence now on various types of manmade EMFs, but in particular the wireless radiation, so from communication devices, including cell phones, modems and even things like radar, for example, there’s a lot of research that’s come out of the military on radar sickness syndrome. And what it is, it’s not a lack of evidence anymore.

It’s competing financial interests that are getting in the way of the standards being adjusted. Even the governing bodies in Australia acknowledge that the standards are insufficient for children, elderly, and people with chronic illness.

But they have also avoided for the last twenty-one twenty-two years bothering to update the standards. And so it’s unfortunate that when you look at the different standards across the world, you’re absolutely right.

Many European countries and even China have standards that are a thousand times stricter than we do have here in Australia, which is surprising. But what that means is it’s going to take people becoming educated and modifying their own behaviors to lower their exposure because there is no regulatory or governing body that’s going to come in and do that for you, unfortunately.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:13:59] Mm. I think it’s quite confronting when people realize and I think this occurred in 2011 or 2013, the W.H.O. classified wi-fi radiation as a class to be carcinogen that is possibly could cause it’s like class one is a definite carcinogen class 2a is probable carcinogen and class 2b is a possible carcinogen. So that’s pretty confronting, isn’t it?


Amie Skilton [00:14:30] It is, because if there wasn’t evidence for its cancer-causing properties, it wouldn’t be sitting as a class 2b. So what that means is the World Health Organization have seen evidence that it can cause cancer. And herein lies the thing.

We have sort of roughly two categories of radiation. And I think when most people hear the term radiation, they think of ionizing radiation, they think of nuclear power, Chernobyl, x rays. And, you know, there was a time when that wasn’t understood to be cancer-causing either. They used to x-ray children’s feet to get the right shoes.

It was a bit of a marketing tactic. But anyway, they did that anyway. And these days you would know better than anyone as a dentist, if you’ve got to perform an X-ray, you stand behind a lead line wall to make sure you don’t get exposed, you don’t order x rays without seriously weighing up the risks versus benefits to the patient.

And so we now understand ionizing radiation to be a significant factor in DNA damage. And that’s because the energy of those waves is so high it causes instant DNA damage. However, because it’s such an extreme presentation of high-energy radiation, the lower energy radiation or nonionizing radiation has been incorrectly lumped into not harmful category. But what we do know now is that non-ionizing radiation does cause DNA damage.

It causes single and double-stranded DNA breaks. And there’s also a number of other biological mechanisms whereby it causes harm to human cells and in fact, all living cells, including mold.

By the way, we can touch on that later. But the we know that it just the damage takes longer to occur. It’s not as instant and it’s cumulative. And I suppose the good news out of that is that the sooner we modify our behavior, the sooner we can remove or reduce that exposure overall to our own cellular health.

Amie Skilton [00:16:45] But if you look at the Orsaa database, which is O R S double-A dot org, they’ve done a lot of hard work really bringing together all of the evidence around the EMF’s and predominantly nonionizing radiation. And what’s really interesting is, as with all studies, you want to look at who’s funding the study.

If you look at the I think it’s roughly two and a half thousand studies that they’ve categorized there that show no harmful effects on man-made EMFs. And every single one of them, except for one, has been funded by a telco company, which, of course, have a vested interest in having that outcome occur.

Amie Skilton [00:17:29] And that one paper that you can’t you just don’t know who actually funds it said. Be willing to bet money wasn’t OK. Where is the other ones where they don’t have a financial interest in the outcome being a certain way, we start to see a more realistic picture of the outcome.

But unfortunately, it’s like any toxicology studies. You’re looking at single doses in controlled environments for a finite amount of time. And here’s how I want to, I guess, compare it. It’s a little bit like studying someone who smokes cigarettes for a week or a month and then you’re like, oh, well, you know, the lung damage wasn’t really that bad and it resolved in a week or two and they never got lung cancer.

Therefore, cigarettes aren’t really that harmful and you won’t get lung cancer. There is a latency period, just like with asbestos and cigarettes and other toxins, whereby it’s that cumulative nature over time that has the impact. And then in the real-time environment, you can study a cell phone in a lab, which they’ve never done, by the way, on a real human body.

It’s a plastic dummy, which is called Sam. And but if you look at a normal office, a corporate office in a major city, you’ve got 30 to 50 people sitting on that floor, all with at least one cell phone, probably some wireless headphones, probably some wi-fi modems, along with wireless printers. And very quickly, you are swimming in a sea of radiation that you can’t visibly pick up, but you have cells absolutely do.

And herein lies the problem, along with everything else in a major city as well that runs on wireless. So you can see very quickly how exposure gets out of control and over years and decades can lead to some pretty significant health issues.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:19:28] I mean, this is raised an issue of evidence-based medicine or marketing. The words are almost interchangeable in our world. And unfortunately, it’s a story that is very easy to miss, even for busy health practitioners. And in fact, one could even argue, particularly for busy health practitioners.

But once you hear it very difficult to ignore and it’s a common it’s a theme that I’ve explored in my book and in this podcast many times and will continue to do.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:20:00] But it’s interesting, you raising this issue about so many studies, an avalanche almost of studies are done by the firm, by the companies themselves, in this case, telcos, in other cases, pharmaceutical companies, and that floods the medical research. And so I don’t think research is weighted according to who funds it.

So then goes into a pool, which when somebody does a meta-analysis, it goes, well, look, there’ve been three thousand studies done and really two-thirds of them or more, 75 percent show there are no effect. And that’s a meta-analysis. And that’s really what goes on in research, doesn’t it?

Amie Skilton [00:20:45] It’s a real shame. You know, there’s no perfect formula to working things out. And of course, once you know how the system works, you can easily influence it. And this is exactly what’s happening. And we’re making a lot of money from something.

Of course, you’re going to reinvest in producing evidence to ensure that nothing threatens the golden goose. And so this is what makes it really difficult, I think, for people to feel, I guess, confident in questioning the status quo. I think many of us are conditioned to believe that if it was unsafe, it wouldn’t be on our supermarket shelves or on Bunning’s shelves, or in retail stores.

Amie Skilton [00:21:28] And that just simply isn’t the case. And then it can become overwhelming. And trying to navigate that is difficult. And then this seems to be it’s becoming more and more of a thing.

There’s like this arrogance around what position you choose to take and people there’s a real payoff as a cheap and tawdry payoff about being right. And people will fight to the death to defend their position. And that becomes more important to them to actually uncovering the truth or even accepting or realizing that maybe it’s a very, terribly gray area and that maybe the precautionary principle is best applied here until we know more. And if you’re not trained in how to read research and even if you are, it can take a lot of digging to really get to the core of it, because often people will misrepresent their conclusions.

I’m sure you’ve read many an abstract entitled only to dove into the paper and find that actually that was a total red herring. And so it’s easy if you just look. On PubMed, as a member of the general public, to look at an abstract and draw a conclusion and not actually be able to witness the methodology being flawed or the conclusion actually not supported by the raw data. And so a lot of people also, I think, just feel more comfortable believing that the government will do the right thing by us and the World Health Organization. And so we’ll just parrot what is published online and leave it there.

The other thing, too, is technology is really fun. It opens up a whole new world. It’s also very addictive and no one likes to have their vices threatened. And so are you. Point to alcohol, you point to coffee. People will fly the flag of a study that showed it was beneficial for heart disease or diabetes. And leave me alone with my glass of shiraz. Thank you very much. And I can’t tell you the most controversial or I guess the most triggering post I’ve ever done was on wireless headphones because everyone thinks the super cool little earbuds in their head like it’s a status symbol.

I get it. I’m an Apple fan. I love technology and no one wants to believe that they are. The status symbol of cool is actually really problematic. And so people will cling very tightly to whatever evidence they can find that something is not a problem.

The other thing is, of course, this, for some weird reason, has ended up in the basket where the full basket of cognitive dissonance, where everything ends up defaulting to your tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. And so that sort of stops a lot of people from looking further into it because no one wants to be labeled as a nutter or as someone whose unscientific or unhinged or not based in reality.

And so for many people, they get bullied or shamed or frightened out of even looking and just are willing to accept. And I really think this is one of those things, especially with the rollout of 5G, that has really triggered two camps when it comes to wireless radiation, which is just such a shame.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:24:46] Yes. No, you can open a whole minefield here by just questioning. Gee, I wonder if 5GS. Oh, my God, you are real. Are you one of those? Are you one of those nutters? Sorry. Sorry. No, no, I’m totally fine 5G. Just give me anything.

Well, anyway, look, the purpose of this podcast is actually to empower people to take control because I think we could get very frustrated about the fact that regulations aren’t coming from above and above. I’m not talking about God. I’m talking about, you know, in fact, we may have a better chance of getting it from God than we will from the government.

But having said that, we this is about knowledge, empowering us to make decisions while still enjoying our technology. And I think we’re both in the same boat that we both love it. Everybody does.

So we need to work out what is best way to go. You mentioned ionizing radiation. And if we think of we don’t have to think of the electromagnetic spectrum is a spectrum. And then one of those really destructive ionizing radiation and down the other end radiation that we’ve been dealing with for the last hundred years, radio waves and then television and all of that. And then we’ve got the visible light range.

And then, you know, that acronym ROYGBIV. I don’t think it really could be if it’s not really an acronym, but it’s red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet. And when we go beyond Violet, it’s called ultraviolet and that’s still non-ionizing?

Amie Skilton [00:26:24] And it’s actually right on the cusp of ionizing and non-ionizing. And so it’s sort of it’s difficult. Like when we try and categorize things, it’s for our own benefit, right. To be able to lump things. But as you said, it’s a spectrum. And the further up you go towards ionizing, the higher and higher the energy, which means the faster and faster it can cause damage, which is, you know, and I think most people are kind of aware of ultraviolet light being problematic skin in terms of overexposure.

And so and of course, and the relationship with skin cancer. Interestingly enough, there’s evidence around wireless radiation from cell phones and devices also contributing to skin cancer and even just general artificial light as well. And so it is more about, I think, being mindful of the risks and then modifying your behavior where you can.

Now, certainly, you don’t want to live near a cell phone tower. And we’ll talk about one of the challenges with the potential rollout of 5G being the proximity of the antennas, but at the moment most people will have much more exposure inside their own homes. And so if it’s all right with you, I’d love to talk about how people can modify their exposure in their own four walls first and then perhaps talk about what they can do about cell phone towers.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:27:57] Absolutely. And I think this is a similar discussion about working your way up and down the aisles of supermarkets and Bunnings and personal care products.

This can all seem very overwhelming and frightening. But the good news is by making responsible decisions, informed decisions, you can reduce the ill effects of all of these things by a significant amount in the form of chemicals that can be up to 80, 90 plus percent. And I’m guessing we can do the same for E.M.F.s. So let’s go with that, Amie.

Amie Skilton [00:28:31] Yes, absolutely. So I actually did create a course, funnily enough, could EMF proof your home and in it, I say reduce your exposure by ninety-five percent in full weight. And I think that’s a significant amount. And that sort of covers a number of different types of EMF.

But I think probably the most important one to talk about is wireless radiation, because that’s the one that is increasing at a hugely rapid rate and is the one that we probably have the closest proximity to twenty-four hours a day if judging the way people nurse their cell phones on the street.

Amie Skilton [00:29:11] So I want you to sort of think about all of the things in your home that are labeled smart or wireless run off of wireless radiation. And basically, if it works without being plugged into the wall, it’s wireless. Or if you can access it without an extra an Ethernet cable, it’s wireless and anything that uses Bluetooth technology as well. So the two biggest things in people’s homes will be the cell phones and the Wi-Fi modem.

Now, obviously, with your phone, it’s a mobile phone. And when you’re carrying it around with you, because you’re going mobile, you can’t plug it in. So what I would say is, unless your job requires you to be on call, if you’re carrying it around with you, whether it’s in your pocket or your handbag, put it on flight mode and make sure that the Wi-Fi and the Bluetooth and the cellular data is all off. Now, you can also buy little bags or RFID protecting sleeves, which act as a mini Faraday cage.

Amie Skilton [00:30:20] So if that’s easier and more convenient, you can slip it into a Faraday cage and then slip it into your pocket or your or your handbag. But you do not want to be carrying your cell phone on your person.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:30:34] Faraday cages. Just give us a quick 101 Faraday cages.

What is Faraday Cage?

Amie Skilton [00:30:39] OK, so a Faraday cage is a term that’s used where you create an environment that completely encapsulates something electrically speaking. And so there are certain metals that can do that. And certainly, this is way beyond the term tin foil that comes from we don’t tin foil is no longer tin foil.

It’s aluminum foil, which is actually quite conductive and doesn’t work the same way. But tin is a very strong repellent of wireless radiation. So is steel. So if you were to make a little steel box and pop your cell phone in that and it was completely sealed, the cell phone wouldn’t work and it wouldn’t admit a signal and it wouldn’t be able to receive a call.

That being said, you can buy much more stylish and convenient Faraday cages now, which are usually leather vegan, leather or fabric that has been lined with either silver or copper thread and or some other metals. Sometimes it’s tin and that will actually reflect any wireless transmissions coming in and also create a bubble around any wireless transmissions that are coming out of the phone, effectively rendering it off-grid.

Amie Skilton [00:31:59] And so what that means is you can carry it in your handbag or in your pocket without it emitting radiation into your body. And any time you pull it out, you can then instantly use it the way that you normally would. So that’s what I would do.

If you’re running around, you’re in the car, you’re walking the shops, you’re out to lunch with a friend babysitting your grandkids, and then you can periodically take it out, allow it to connect, and check if you had any calls, voicemails or text messages.

Now, if your job requires you to have phone access all the time, obviously that’s not going to be a practical intervention and you can just park that. But for everybody else, that is one significant and important way of reducing your exposure. The other thing is when you’re at home.

Amie Skilton [00:32:48] I don’t know about you, Ron, but I know an awful lot of people that will sit on the couch with the telly on who will also be sitting on their phones, scrolling away, whether it’s checking out the grim, doing their shopping, clearing emails, you know, there’s usually a couple of screens going and they’re actually holding that cell phone in the proximity of all of their vital organs. And we know that it causes cardiovascular problems, damages the microbiome of the gut, causes DNA damage, and does a whole host of other things. So this is what I do.

I actually hardwire my phone. I do the same thing with my laptop. And what that means is actually connecting an infinite cable. From your modem and using a little gadget like this, this one is a lightning to Ethernet adapter specific for iPhones and iPads and even iPods and then switching off the wireless component in the modem.

We’ll talk about that in a second. And also on your phone, so you’re basically hardwired into the Internet, but you’re not being exposed to any wireless radiation now, because I know this is how people use their phones. This is probably one of the most significant and easy, simple ways to reduce a really large exposure to the body.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:09] So so, Amie, this is it plugs into the iPhone and you take the blue cable is doing not wi fi through your house, but infinite blue cable and plug it into your phone. Correct. And switch off switch off Wi-Fi and Bluetooth and just go cellular data still on?

Amie Skilton [00:34:29] Not keep the cellular data off as well.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:30] Off as well. Yes, it will. Okay, so that’ll still work.

Amie Skilton [00:34:35] Yes, it will.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:34:36] That’s a really good one.

Amie Skilton [00:34:39] Well, so that I think is a given that most people, when they relax, will sit down with their phone and have it in arm’s reach, that is probably one of the best things someone could do so that, you know, of an evening when you’re on the couch board and some people three or four hours after dinner, that’s three or four hours of radiation exposure that you can avoid.

I guess the other one is the wireless radiation from the modem. Now, they’ll be certain things that you’ll need your Wi-Fi on for, especially if, let’s say you’re making a zoom or a Skype call and you’ve got to move around the house. You got to do other stuff.

Unless you have a very long cable like I do, you’re going to need to connect to the Wi-Fi. But switching the Wi-Fi off when you’re not using it and using the Ethernet cable while you can is another powerful way of reducing your exposure. So, for example, you know, I’ve got a laptop. That’s what I work on.

Amie Skilton [00:35:36] And if I’m down at the cafe, of course, I’m going to have to hotspot of my phone or connect to the cafe’s wireless. But when I’m at home, which is usually eight hours a day working on on my laptop, I don’t need to be exposing myself to that. I just plug in again using an adapter via the blue Ethernet cable. So again, I’ve mixed that whole exposure.

Amie Skilton [00:36:00] Now, you know, I have some clients that it’s a bit tricky to do that there might be a share house, maybe three or four people. Not everyone wants to be sort of anchored down by an Ethernet cable. I understand that.

Now, if that’s the situation you find yourself in, at the very least you can turn the Wi-Fi modem off at night. There is absolutely no need to be sleeping in non-ionizing radiation for eight hours or so when the Internet is not in use. So at the very least, turning it off when the last person goes to bed and then switching it back on when the first person who needs it is up in the morning. But hardwiring is obviously ideal.

The other thing you can do when this requires a little bit of extra support is actually powering down the signal strength on your modem.

Amie Skilton [00:36:49] Now, modems were originally a business device, and so the signal strength is very strong and was originally intended to be able to service the whole office floor with uninterrupted access.

However, you don’t need that kind of strength in a residential environment unless you live in some five-story McMansion and because maybe then you do. But for the average household, you can power down the signal by ninety-five percent and still have enough of a strong connection to be able to do everything you want.

But you’ve dramatically lowered the amount of wireless radiation you’re being exposed to. So that would be another tip that I would risk.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:37:35] So this is like signals coming in. In my case, I’m a cable connected to the modem, so that’s how it actually gets its information. So it’s the is coming in, but then I have control over the signal going out on that modem. I’ll have to going to have to go. Yes. I might just pause here and go to where my modem is. Well I’m not going to do that. But I mean there is clearly buttons on there which says output and you go to lower output.

Amie Skilton [00:38:11] It’s actually just so what it is, is you’ve got to log in to the ISP mainframe. So, for example, I’ve got NBN, but then to the NBN comes to the NBN box in my house and then it delivers the signal to the modem and then the modem can obviously emit a wireless connection.

And you can also hardwire and you can use one or the other or both at the same time to change the strength of the signal in the modem. I’m with Vodafone, so I’ve got to log in to my Vodafone account and do it through that.

Amie Skilton [00:38:46] And so if you’re with Telstra, Optus, or whoever you’re with, your login to your account and you might need to get the technical support to help you do this, but you can reduce the signal strength from there. The other thing to be mindful of is a lot of the newer modems have also got cellular backup. Mine does, which means if the signal is low, it’ll switch to satellite data.

You can that has a button that you can turn off. And I would recommend you do that as well. Only turn it on if you need it. But otherwise, that’s going to be going as well. So as you can see, there’s a lot of wireless radiation coming out of those things that is just unnecessary unless you specifically want or need it for a given occasion.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:39:31] Hmm. Oh, it’s just so interesting, isn’t it? I mean, I’ve often thought that our relationship with technology is akin to a kid in a toy shop. Know we are. So and I’m guilty of this, too. I’m not you know, we are so swept up in this new toy and it’s only been around since really smartphones since 2007. So it’s relatively new, 14 years now.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:39:57] And we are loving it. I mean, we’re getting all sorts of access and now how exciting. We’re going to be able to download movies even quicker. Da da da da da.

But the point is, there are these other issues about our health, and we kind of need to redefine our relationship with technology. And this is another reminder of that. And we won’t even I mean, today we won’t go into the psychological and social implications of our relationship with technology.

That’s a discussion for another time. But this is another good example of really getting to know our technology and how to manage it well. And some of the things you’ve mentioned to me here, and I feel like I’m reasonably well informed. This is new. This is good. This is great. I mean, to go on.

Amie Skilton [00:40:43] So. All right. Excellent. So the other thing, of course, is to reevaluate your use of anything that’s wireless or runs on Bluetooth. So to give you an example, I’ve got a speaker upstairs that I can connect to, either via an auxiliary cable so I can plug it into my phone or via Bluetooth.

And so if we’ve gone out for a dinner on the balcony, for example, of course, I’m going to use the Bluetooth. I have an auxiliary cable that long, but I’ll make sure that the speaker is not on the table with us where we’re eating. It’s far enough away.

But generally speaking, if I’m playing it in the kitchen, I will keep the Bluetooth part of it off and just use the auxiliary cable. Now, unfortunately, with some of the more US sort of Bluetooth wireless devices, it’s actually not possible to switch off the wireless component.

Amie Skilton [00:41:39] A colleague of mine who’s a building biologist has another Bose speaker that you can’t. So she actually has to put it inside a stainless steel pot with the lid on at night, because otherwise it just continues to emit wireless radiation that she can’t switch off. So it’s the same with things like headphones.

Again, you know, switching to a wired headset is better. Switching to air tubes is best where the wire doesn’t come all the way up and into your ears now again, it depends what you’re using them for. An air tube, for example, is perfect, perfect for conversations and phone calls. But the sound quality isn’t great if you’re listening to it for music.

So maybe what you might choose to do is instead of using those fancy wireless headphones that have great sound for everything you do with your phone, just keep it for the music and watch how long you’re using it, for example. So anything like that.

The other thing is, of course, how long you been exposed to it? How close it is to your body? All of those things matter. So, you know, a smart TV is a lot less problematic usually than your cell phone. And you won’t necessarily know unless you measure every device is different. But because the TV is usually up on the wall a good four or five meters away from you, it’s not the same as sitting there with your cell phone on your belly.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:43:06] Yeah, no distance is important, isn’t it? I mean, people go to sleep and some people think they’re being really good by going to sleep with or they’re sitting in bed with their laptop in their lap or their phone under the pillow or something by their bed. Distance is important. What’s a safe distance?

Distance is important

Amie Skilton [00:43:25] Well, look, that does depend on the signal strength and the device. And, of course. Many people have multiple devices in their homes, so a building biologist or EMF field testing technician can come in and actually measure the overall exposure and identify where those sources are, for example.

So I’m studying to be an army field testing technician. And we did an audit on a home where we were picking up a wireless signal from someone’s cordless phone on the other side of the wall in the neighbor’s house. And so you can obviously modify what’s happening in your home with your devices and measure that easily.

But without professional equipment, some of those other external sources can be tricky to pick up. So the key thing I think is to get your exposure is always going to be greatest from your own devices. And distance is key and distance. Wherever you sit, stand, or sleep for a long period of time is going to be the most important thing that you can do, especially the bedroom.

So, you know, what you said before prompted me to say you don’t want any devices in your bedroom at night and ideally, everything should be off or in flight mode overnight while you’re sleeping. I actually had a client many years ago before I was even that well educated on the subject who was waking up with headaches every morning.

Amie Skilton [00:44:45] And she didn’t come to see me for that. She’d come to see me for and nutrition programs. She was a gymnast. She was going to compete at the Olympics. And obviously, in the case history, we uncovered she was waking up every morning what she was doing, where she was going to be slipping her cell phone under her pillow, not in flight mode and sleeping on it. And there are probably a lot of people who do that because they’re addicted to their devices and don’t want to have be disconnected from this virtual world.

And of course, that is I mean, that’s the fast highway to a brain tumor that there’s no beating around the bush about that. But, of course, our brains being an electrical, super biological computer, that it is one of our organs that is most vulnerable to electrical interference if I can simplify it that much.

And of course, as soon as I raised that with her and she I don’t think she was prepared to not have it in the bedroom, but she would put it in a flight mode and leave it on the bedside table and didn’t charge it. That’s another really important one. The magnetic fields, a problem, instant headache, disappearance. She no longer had those problems.

Amie Skilton [00:45:56] So, yeah, it’s that can be really that simple.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:46:00] Yes. Yes. Wow. That’s so profound, isn’t it? Because a lot of people are doing just that and actually, ironically, monitoring their sleep quality by using devices like that. And that’s a whole story in itself. Yeah. And then you mentioned also that some people are actually very sensitive to it’s a condition that’s becoming recognized, isn’t it, hyper EMF hypersensitivity. Tell us a little bit about that.


Amie Skilton [00:46:33] Yes. So, look, EMFs going to cause cellular damage to all human beings and all living things, actually. And it’s again, it’s that latency period in a matter of time. And if your exposure is high enough and lengthy enough, you’ll likely develop what’s called electro hypersensitivity.

Electrohypersensitivity, though, can be induced when your body has been through some other Bourdin. I actually developed what I would consider to be a mild form of that as a result of serious in my mold exposure. So if you have any sort of chronic inflammation or autoimmune condition or any other immunological disorder or cellular weakness, mitochondrial dysfunction, you’re much more vulnerable because your reserves are less and your ability to weather the biological challenges is also weaker and so it can look different for everyone.

I will run through the symptoms in a moment, but I’ll just share my personal symptoms because I didn’t get a lot of those that are on the list and it took me a while to work out what it was. So the year that I got sick with mold, of course I had I was using Wi-Fi because everyone does and I didn’t know any better. And the Wi-Fi modem, whilst it was in a different room, it still was only about five meters away.

So exposure number one. I also got myself a really fancy, pretty looking white cordless phone to sit on my desk, which was one and a half feet away from my face, and then also have a stand that my cell phone sits on that’s one foot away from my face and my laptop right there. So I was sitting in a sea of wireless radiation. And of course, my body was burdened by mycotoxins. And what was happening was my face would start to go numb.

Amie Skilton [00:48:27] My nose in particular, it was like a little bit like. When you get an anesthetic from the dentist, you know how your face goes numb and then as it begins to wear off, you get that sort of you’ve got some sensation, but it feels very muted and dull and puffy and distant. And it was that it was that sort of I can feel my nose, but it also feels like I’ve got anesthetic wearing off.

And that would sort of spread to my face. If I was sitting on my cell phone for a while, my hand would get the same kind of numb, puffy sort of feeling. I would also get a bit of a headache. And it’s a very distinctive headache. It’s not like a hangover. It’s not like a normal migraine. It’s like a brain ache that I know.

Amie Skilton [00:49:12] I then eventually worked out with a specific to my cell phone. I would also start getting palpitations, sensitive, funny arrhythmias. I’d feel my heart sort of do weird things in my chest. And I would also if I kept pushing, which I don’t. But of course back then when I didn’t know any better if I just kept exposing myself, I’d end up feeling really sick.

It wasn’t like a food poisoning, nausea, but it was, I guess, more of a mild a feeling of I ill and I may vomit. I don’t think I’m going to, but what would I feel better if I did? So they were my symptoms and they are the same symptoms I get if I am, which doesn’t happen very often these days. But occasionally if I’m traveling, for instance, and I’m not hard-wired, I will get because I’ve run my own business online.

Amie Skilton [00:50:03] But some of the other symptoms that you can get with electrohypersensitivity, headaches, probably the most common one that happens in almost 90 percent of people who consider themselves sensitive, abnormal sensations like the ones that I got to also quite common and over 80 percent of people.

But it might not necessarily be numbness could be burning prickling or aching feelings, really muscle aches and pains occur in roughly half of people who are sensitive to EMF. So that might look like fibromyalgia or it might just look like general aches and pains or joint pains for people who make the mistake of talking with their cell phones up to their head.

Hot is or ear pain is very common or a headache on that side. Same with tinnitus or ringing, buzzing, crackling in the ear. But it can really affect people’s moods. So attention deficit can occur, dizziness, loss of immediate memory, anxiety, depression, things like that.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:51:12] I mean, while we’ve just covered so much territory here and, you know when we first met, you were giving a lecture on in one of the conferences that we’d attended. And I think your teaching is fabulous. And you mentioned you have a course on this and is it’s a great opportunity for people.

We’re going to have links to that course because this is just a big topic which people need to get their head around because it’s part of our lives and it’s not going away. That’s right. So I will definitely we’re going to have links to this, to your course, because I think I’m going to do it myself. So I want to I really want to thank you for today to raise this issue, because, as I said, it’s something that we’re all confronted with. So thank you again for joining us and sharing your wisdom. And I’m looking forward to doing the calls.

Amie Skilton [00:52:04] My absolute pleasure, Ron. Thanks for having me.


Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:10] Well, with knowledge, comes power, and having the knowledge about how to minimize your exposure to EMR electromagnetic radiation is a significant part of dealing with this issue. And as I say, I’ve said many times, considering that every cell in our body, every atom in our body is both energy and matter, to assume that electromagnetic radiation, whether it be in the form of mobile phones, Bluetooth, wi-fi, whatever, to assume that that has no effect is naive at best and perhaps negligent at worst.

Dr Ron Ehrlich [00:52:51] So I think the precautionary principle is a really good way to proceed with so many of these issues that if we are unsure about its effect, we should assume that we should be cautious about it. And I’d say putting a distance between us is a very important part of that. And being aware of where it’s coming from is also important.

Now, Amie Skilton’s website, we will have links to and she has an online program and she’s offering a discount on that program, EMF. in the home and how to avoid its harmful effects. And there’s code that you can put in Unstress will have links to that in the show notes. And we’ll have links to Amie’s website as well.

Now, we’ve got some great things happening in our courses. And we’ve got a great online five pillars of health course coming, just switching over to a whole new platform, which is going to make it a lot easier to access the information and interact with it. And we’re also developing the app, not just the Unstress with Dr. Ron app, but the five Pillars of Health app, which will literally put health and wellness in the palm of your hand. So and of course, do not forget to leave a review on it. You have to put in that clock as well. I hope this finds you well. So until next time. This is Dr Ron Ehrlich be well.


This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health, and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or as a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions.