SPECIAL EDITION | Dr Richard Cheng: Evolution, Brain Size & Nutrients…..Are We Getting Better or Worse? Introduction
Well, today’s episode is a little unusual because it actually began as an invitation for me to be interviewed, and it turned into a conversation that I thought would be worth sharing with you. I have mentioned this before, but the Orthomolecular News Service has been going for 25 or 30 years at least. I’ll have to check on that. But it is made up of an advisory board, and an editorial board of over 50 practitioners from around the world, and they are the wealth and depth of knowledge within that group is quite phenomenal.
When I was President of the Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine in 2019 and 20, I was invited to join the editorial board, and I’ve been a member of that ever since, and I have had the privilege of interviewing some of the people on the board. I’ve interviewed Dr Thomas Levy, who is a cardiologist, and we’ve spoken about vitamin C, and we’ve spoken about a whole range of oral health, systemic health issues and also how to approach COVID.
We talked to Professor Michael Gonzalezs from Puerto Rico, a Professor of Public Health. I’ve spoken to Todd Penberthy, and we talked about B-group vitamins. I’ve spoken to Andrew Saul, who is the editor of the Orthomolecular News Service. And you may have seen him in a very famous documentary called Food Matters. And he coined the phrase, “The good health may make sense, but it doesn’t make dollars.” And, you know, I’ve often said that the current health care system is a great economic model. It’s just not a particularly good health model. Now, Ian Brighthope, of course, has been a regular guest. Carolyn Dean, we spoke about magnesium. And Richard Cheng.
Dr Richard Cheng has a practise in North Carolina, one of the Carolinas, North of South Carolina, but also in China. And I had the pleasure of speaking to Richard when he was in China at the outbreak of this pandemic in 2020. And he actually was stuck there for about a year. So he was visiting family for Chinese New Year. And then the pandemic broke out and there was travel was shut down, etc., etc.
So I spoke to Richard as well. So to bring me to today’s conversation, and recently in the exploration of my book, my new book, which I am working on called Evolution Bites Back. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on human evolution, and something that has fascinated me is brain size.
Brain size is something that has increased up until the beginning of the agricultural revolution. And we started as we split off from the apes. We had brain size, as Australopithecines. We got up on two feet. That was what Australopithecus did. And the brain size was pretty similar to monkeys and apes. And they are, let’s put a figure on it, a 400 cc. And then when Homo Habilis came along, which was around 2 million years ago, then brain size increased to around 600 ccs. And then a wonderful thing happened with Homo Erectus, where brain size increased.
Look, I’m not going to spoil it. We talked about this in the podcast. And what really drew my attention to it was this relationship we have with a bacteria called tuberculosis bacteria, which you immediately would be concerned about as TB (tuberculosis), a life-threatening disease. But for tens of thousands of years, it wasn’t life-threatening. It was actually part of the important synergistic relationship we have with so many other microbes.
And I sent that off to the Orthomolecular News Service. And so Richard contacted me and said, “Let’s have a chat about this”, which is exactly what we did. But of course, that led us into a whole range of other discussions. So what started as an interview for me for the Orthomolecular News Service, morphed into a conversation between Dr Richard Cheng and myself about a wide range of topics and the state of the world. And we covered a whole range of things. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation I had with Dr Richard Cheng.
Podcast Transcript
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:00:00] I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which I am recording this podcast, the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation and pay my respects to their Elders – past, present and emerging.
Hello and welcome to Unstress. My name is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Well, today’s episode is a little unusual because it actually began as an invitation for me to be interviewed, and it turned into a conversation that I thought would be worth sharing with you. I have mentioned this before, but the Orthomolecular News Service has been going for 25 or 30 years at least. I’ll have to check on that. But it is made up of an advisory board and an editorial board of over 50 practitioners from around the world, and they are the wealth and depth of knowledge within that group is quite phenomenal.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:01:01] When I was President of the Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine in 2019 and 20, I was invited to join the editorial board, and I’ve been a member of that ever since, and I have had the privilege of interviewing some of the people on the board. I’ve interviewed Dr Thomas Levy, who is a cardiologist, and we’ve spoken about vitamin C, and we’ve spoken about a whole range of oral health, systemic health issues and also how to approach COVID. We talked to Professor Michael Gonzalezs from Puerto Rico, a Professor of Public Health. I’ve spoken to Todd Penberthy, and we talked about B-group vitamins.
I’ve spoken to Andrew Saul, who is the editor of the Orthomolecular News Service. And you may have seen him in a very famous documentary called Food Matters. And he coined the phrase, “The good health may make sense, but it doesn’t make dollars.” And, you know, I’ve often said that the current health care system is a great economic model. It’s just not a particularly good health model. Now, Ian Brighthope, of course, has been a regular guest. Carolyn Dean, we spoke about magnesium. And Richard Cheng.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:02:19] Dr Richard Cheng has a practise in North Carolina, one of the Carolinas, North of South Carolina, but also in China. And I had the pleasure of speaking to Richard when he was in China at the outbreak of this pandemic in 2020. And he actually was stuck there for about a year. So he was visiting family for Chinese New Year. And then the pandemic broke out, and there was travel was shut down, etc., etc.
So I spoke to Richard as well. So to bring me to today’s conversation, and recently in the exploration of my book, my new book, which I am working on called Evolution Bites Back. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on human evolution, and something that has fascinated me is brain size.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:03:12] Brain size is something that has increased up until the beginning of the agricultural revolution. And we started as we split off from the apes. We had brain size, as Australopithecines. We got up on two feet. That was what Australopithecus did. And the brain size was pretty similar to monkeys and apes. And they are, let’s put a figure on it, a 400 cc. And then when Homo Habilis came along, which was around 2 million years ago, then brain size increased to around 600 ccs. And then a wonderful thing happened with Homo Erectus where brain size increased.
Look, I’m not going to spoil it. We talked about this in the podcast. And what really drew my attention to it was this relationship we have with a bacteria called tuberculosis bacteria, which you immediately would be concerned about as TB (tuberculosis), a life-threatening disease. But for tens of thousands of years, it wasn’t life-threatening. It was actually part of the important synergistic relationship we have with so many other microbes.
And I sent that off to the Orthomolecular News Service. And so Richard contacted me and said, “Let’s have a chat about this”, which is exactly what we did. But, of course, that led us into a whole range of other discussions. So what started as an interview for me for the Orthomolecular News Service morphed into a conversation between Dr Richard Cheng and myself about a wide range of topics and the state of the world. And we covered a whole range of things. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation I had with Dr Richard Cheng.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:05:01] All right. Tell me, because you brought up basically you were talking about niacin and human evolution. Brains.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:05:10] Yes. Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:05:11] Tell me about it
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:05:12] Well, I’m actually writing a book called Evolution Bites Back. And so I’ve been exploring human evolution, and one of the people who are who’s a world authority on it is a guy called Robin Dunbar. And this is just an amazing book. And I’ve been very interested in, you know, see, as a dentist, we get to see two things that are quite significant locally, but the implications orally are just systemically huge.
One is tooth decay, which is still the biggest non-communicable disease known to man, woman or child. And the other is physical degeneration. And by that, I mean we have evolved to have 32 teeth.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:06:04] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:06:05] And yet 95% of the population do not have 32 teeth. They have crowded… Narrow jaws and crowded teeth and that has implications for the upper airway. The other thing that has fascinated me, particularly as the vegan movement is gaining strength and as meat is being demonised, is our human journey from apes to the current day and the growth of brain size during that time.
And what were some of the drivers for brain cranial growth? For example, you know, chimpanzees have a brain size of about 400 ccs. Australopithecus, which was our very early ancestors, which started around 4 million years ago, had similarly 400 ccs and…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:07:09] Much smaller…
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:07:09] Much, much smaller brain. Much smaller brain. And then things started to change as we changed our diet and as our food became more nutrient-dense, our brain size increased. Homo Habilis was our next ancestor, 600 cc. Homo Erectus, our next ancestor, 800 cc. This is where things started to get interesting because we really started to not only have meat, which was a nutrient-dense food, but we also started to use fire. And that made a lot more food bioavailable. And then…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:07:53] About what, 2 million years ago?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:07:56] Homo erectus. About 1.8, yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:07:59] 1.8 million.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:08:00] Yeah. And then brain size started to grow to where it reached a size that is actually bigger than it is now. A modern human’s brain size has gone down.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:08:13] Yeah, that’s what I read, too.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:08:14] Yes. And we got to…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:08:18] After the agriculture, actually.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:08:18] That was the big one. That was the big one. And we got to a point where we were about 1450 cc. So if you think about chimpanzees and Australopithecus, because that was significant, we got up on two feet at that point, bipedal, that was 400 cc. Then around what, 200,000 years ago, we were at this point where we were a 1450 cc now. Interestingly, Neanderthals have bigger brains.
They’re around 1600 cc, but they have a much bigger orbital cortex. So they have the bulge at the back of the head, and they have a larger orbital visual cortex. And it’s postulated that that’s because they inhabited northern European climates. And there were more periods of darkness. And so they had to become more visually acute.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:09:19] Oh, oh.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:09:20] That was what’s always fascinated me is if you took a Homo Sapiens of 200,000 years ago and you transported them to today, they would be indistinguishable from us today. So what happened 70,000 years ago that began this migration out of Africa and not only out of Africa, but it took us right across Europe, North America, down to the tip of South America and to Australia. I mean, in Australia, we were there 65,000 years ago, our Indigenous Aboriginal. So it was this incredible surge 70,000 years ago. And what could have driven that surge?
Well, obviously, climate would have played a significant role. But what was so interesting in this book, which is what I shared with Orthomolecular News Service, because, well, I just thought, “Wow, this is a real Aha! moment for me.” He says in passing about 70,000 years ago, we’d already been consuming meat, we’d already been cooking using fire. But about 70,000 years ago, we began a symbiotic relationship with the tuberculosis bacterium.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:10:50] Tuberculosis bacterium comes in two forms: one is a human form which was non-pathogenic until we moved into our Neolithic times of living in close-knit communities, not just close-knit populations, but in close contact with our animals. And so, there’s a bovine strain of tuberculosis bacteria, which is quite pathogenic. But the interesting thing about 70,000 years ago, this symbiotic relationship, like we have with many bacteria, I mean, you know, we need our microbiome. Arguably, we are just vehicles for a microbiome.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:11:35] And that is we’re not really us.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:11:37] No, no, we’re not really us. We’re just here to make sure the microbiome is well nourished. And if it is, then we benefit from it. Well, 17,000 years ago, we started a relationship with the tuberculosis bacterium. And in this book, he says one of the things that bacteria do very well produce nicotinamide or B3.
And that, of course, has very profound impact on brain function, particularly at times when perhaps meat may not be as available. This relationship becomes really important. So I thought, well, I wanted to share that with the Orthomolecular News Service because I know that, you know, Ibram Hoffer who is…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:12:25] Yeah. He was big on that.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:12:26] He was very big on that. And I know there are many in this group that would far better than me.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:12:32] Yeah. Seems to me that was the very first vitamin that’s been clinically studying a high dose. Am I right? The niacin.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:12:43] Sorry. Sorry, Richard?
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:12:45] No, what I’m saying is that you know, Dr Hoffer, he back in the 1950s, started using high dose niacin.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:12:51] Mm hmm.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:12:52] To me, that seems to be the very first vitamin that’s used the high doses for clinical treatment.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:12:59] Yeah. I mean, he was making all sorts of connections with neurological, mental health conditions and B-3. So yeah, I mean, he and I think Andrew and has and the group had said many times that he was a major force in this Ortho… I mean, perhaps the father of Orthomolecular medicine.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:13:21] Yeah. Yeah. So coming back, no question. So you were saying in the which form of this TB, which is that the TB human form, actually produces niacinamide?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:13:37] Apparently yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:13:37] To help. So in our normal gut.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:13:41] Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The problem with TB, like many microbes and viruses, is when it’s I think it’s called zoonotic, you know, when it comes from the animal and jumped species, and that’s when it became pathogenic in human culture is when we were in much tighter communities, sedentary communities in close proximity with the animals and particularly the bovine type of tuberculosis.
But it’s all part of the journey, really, for me, of exploring what nutrient-dense means, number one. And that has led me into a whole area of regenerative agriculture because, you know, I’ve been interested in regenerative agriculture for about the last 20 years when I got introduced to holistic land management. And I’ve been interested in holistic health care for over 40 years.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:14:43] And then I realised actually there are so many similarities between holistic land management and holistic health care. For example, the microbiome. The microbiome in the mouth, the microbiome in the gut, the more diverse the microbiome is, the healthier you are and the more resilient you are.
And similarly, in the soil, you know, what provides a nutrient-dense diet? It’s the food we eat. But you can grow food using nitrogen phosphate and phosphorus. You know, these are superphosphate fertilisers. But in fact, in healthy food, in nutrient-dense food, I think there are like 50 or 60 of the elements of the periodic table that we need in our body. And the only way that becomes available is for the microbes within the soil and the mycorrhizal fungi within the soil to break down the minerals and make them available to the plants which we eat or which animals that we eat.
And so this whole idea of regenerative agriculture and this idea of enabling or dominating nature, you know, we industrial agriculture tries to dominate nature. And this is true of how we approach chronic disease management as well. Whereas if we enable nature. Support nature. Then we can deliver good health, which is a wonderful concept, rather than just managing chronic disease. So this kind of all fits into a more holistic picture. That’s fascinated me for some time.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:16:31] Just to mention another thing that’s happening right here, it’s concerning here in the United States is that I don’t know if you have noticed that I think the FDA recently just passed some sort of the regulation on the like small scale meat production or something like that. You know what I’m talking about. Basically, this regulation, again, assists or helps these bigger agricultural farms like Bill Gates because he’s trying to say, “No, don’t eat these, you know, meat you know, raised in the farmland that you started lab-grown meats…” Is going crazy. But they want to control everything.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:17:12] They do.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:17:13] And controlling our medicines. They’ve been controlling our agricultural products. You know, they to control the meats that we eat. You know.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:17:21] I know this is a really disturbing trend. And look, you know, I’ve been aware of the influence of the chemical food and pharmaceutical industry on health care for the last 30, 35 years. I mean, my big epiphany as a new graduate in dentistry was to learn what I had…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:17:42] You were a dentist by training?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:17:44] I am a dentist by training. And so what was the epiphany for me, shortly after I graduated in 1980 or 1978, actually. 1980 was the epiphany when someone said to me, the filling material you are using releases mercury. And I said, “No, no, no, no, that’s not true. The university, my lectures, and my professors all told me about my associations. All told me that mercury was locked into the filling.” And when I learnt that that wasn’t the case, it was the beginning of questioning authority.
So, I have been following this story for at least the last 35 years, but even me being aware of that, have been shocked about what’s gone on in the last two years at the level of influence. I mean, the level of influence is just, I think it’s referred to as The Great Reset. I think it is part of the World Economic Forum.
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, I think it’s just a very sophisticated business model that’s working incredibly well. And if the evidence is anything to go by, and I think we’re often told we should look at the evidence, I think there’s been a redistribution of wealth in the last two years of something like $3.8 trillion upwards.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:19:15] Oh, my God.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:19:16] And, you know, this is part of a much bigger business plan called The Great Reset.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:19:22] I totally agree with you. I begin to realise many of us like you and me, had a very similar journey. The very first time I got exposed to this was by a book. Curiously enough, I remember it was a small book like this small. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find it anymore. It was back 30 years ago, a little pamphlet. The title is something like Secrets The FDA Doesn’t Want You To Know About something like that. So this and that, you know, caught my attention. People that are curious about secrets. Anyway. So then I read about vitamin C.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:20:01] Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:20:01] That’s the first time I heard about vitamin C, all that, all his work and everything. Now, of course, you know, I start taking pharmacy. This is good, you know, since then. But again, I still did not really quite comprehend, you know, the business model. That’s what you’re just talking about. Until this time, two years ago, I was really upset because just like well, I’m glad to tell you that actually I’m being inducted into the Hall of Fame next week.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:20:34] Wow. Congratulations.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:20:35] Well, thank you. Yeah. So they actually… Like I mentioning that you know, I wrote in my speech is that then I began to realise actually evidence is there, you know, I don’t think there’s a problem with the evidence-based medicine. The problem is that they pick the evidence they want.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:20:53] That’s right.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:20:54] They leave out tremendous amount of evidence like vitamin C. There are over 70000 articles, even hydrogen peroxide, you know, commercially visible.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:21:04] Yes. Yes. And I and I’m grateful to Thomas. I’ve interviewed him on my podcast several times. Twice and so have you. And I got COVID a few weeks ago, and I’m very grateful.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:21:15] Oh. You did?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:21:15] I did. And I got I, you know, I followed the FLCC protocols, as well as Thomas Levy’s suggestion about hydrogen peroxide. And I was fine. I mean, I’ve been fine.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:21:29] While I mentioned about this thing, everybody says I’m crazy. Yes, I said realise I said it, you know, I said I’m being gentle pride, but I said, you know what, I do not make a recommendation until unless I have really studied. I said I have studied. Have you? There are tens of thousands of research papers on this thing about safety.
And I said, Thomas Levy, you hear this book, we’re gonna summarize. So would you bother to read it? But unfortunately, these are all excellent quality evidence. But they weren’t mentioned.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:22:00] Yeah, well, I have often said that ignorance is a wonderful thing. You know, I practise it regularly and, you know, I learn a lot because of it. But when ignorance is combined with ego, arrogance and hubris and it informs public health policy, then people’s lives are at stake. And it is that ego, arrogance and hubris that is on display when people say, “Oh, there’s no evidence to support this.”.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:22:32] I mean, for example, Richard, at the beginning of the pandemic here in Australia at the time, I was President of the Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine (ACNEM) and Ian Brighthope, who was the Founder and President for many years wrote letters to the National Health and Medical Research Council, to the Federal Government, to the AMA, the Australian Medical Association, the TGA, the equivalent of our FDA and said, “Look, at the very least provide those that are vulnerable, particularly in aged care with vitamin D, zinc, magnesium and vitamin C at the very least. And here are 100 references to support what I’m saying.”
And we got a letter, and he asked me to be a co-signatory on that. I was very proud to do it. And we got a reply from the TGA, our FDA, if you like, they’re saying insufficient evidence to support the use of vitamin D for this issue. And what is so annoying about this is that when drugs like Molnupiravir or Paxlovid came out and two or three studies were provided by the drug companies. The TGA immediately rushed it through as though this was unquestioning.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:23:56] I know.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:23:57] So it’s just I think actually criminal actions need. I think people need to be held accountable on man’s sort of chart.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:24:07] Yeah. Actually, what I been reading is, you know, I have to say, you know, here I physically am here in the United States, I do feel the tide is changing here. You know, we all know about Elon Musk buying out Twitter. The true social of Trump is alive. And I do know that you know, the 22 candidates supported by Trump all won the primary in the Republican primaries.
And so, there’s a lot of hope that one of the two chambers of Congress very likely will turn Republican. So I do feel that the light at the end of the tunnel here because I was talking about, was Thomas Levy yesterday on this issue. So naturally, coming back to Australia seemed like recently, I shouldn’t talk about the politics of men in China because it’s a lot more serious, you know what I mean?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:25:06] Yes. And you were there. You were there at the coalface. For six months. For six months or nine months. How long were you there?
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:25:12] A year.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:25:13] Wow. Wow.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:25:14] Almost a year. You know, but as I got the impression that because somebody I know that some people were protesting on the streets of Sydney… What is your capital?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:25:32] Canberra.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:25:33] Yeah. Anyway, so they were arrested.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:25:36] Yes. Oh, look.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:25:39] Australia, actually, there’s really no freedom of speech. Is that true?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:25:43] Well. You know, that protest which friends of mine went down to, down in Canberra and there would have been two or 300,000 people down there, had to know. It was not reported at all in the media. In the media. And I stop, and I’ve stopped calling the news services as news services. They are not news services. They are media outlets. And it was not reported.
And look, we have capture, which is, you know, it cuts across so many different we just had I’ll give you another example, and I’m actually I have done a podcast which is coming out in a few weeks time, which there was a forum run by the Australian Government two weeks ago, a two-hour forum on early treatment for COVID. Now what was so remarkable about this was that after 26 months of the outbreak of the pandemic, the Australian Government now wants to focus on treatment for those that are vulnerable and at high risk. So harm minimisation.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:26:56] And what was this two-hour forum focussed on? Or basically, there were more, but basically four drugs: Remdesivir, Molnupiravir, Paxlovid, and Sotrovimab. And what was ironic about this was that two weeks before that, the BMJ published an article called The Illusion of Evidence-based Medicine and spoke about key opinion leaders or, in marketing parlance, trials and product champions.
And what I saw in this forum, which brought together the leaders in health care in Australia, the chief medical officer, the head of the Health Department, and the head of the TGA slash FDA in Australia, brought together all of those people. And what we were witnessing was KOLs (Key Opinion Leaders) and product champions in action. They spoke about nothing else but patented drugs. Newly patented drugs that have received an emergency use authorisation, which of course, absolves them of so much. But it’s just shocking to me to see that.
So I think we do have we’re coming up for an election in the next two weeks in Australia. Federal election. And my hope is that we have a hung parliament, meaning there’s no clear majority and that there are independents there which the government will have to negotiate with. And this is a concept which we haven’t seen a lot of in recent times called democracy. So you know, I think it’s a very difficult situation here in Australia. I think that it’s true.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:28:51] It’s harder. It’s more harsh over there towards…
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:28:56] I went to a meeting last week which was held in Sydney and the Australian of the Year. An ophthalmic surgeon called James Muecke was giving a lecture talking about diabetes and the low-carb approach to diabetes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:29:11] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:29:12] That meeting couldn’t be held in Melbourne, Victoria because Victoria has a law which says everybody who attends a public meeting must be able to show proof of vaccination. And if the organisers cannot verify that, they potentially will be fined up to $200,000. So the organisers chose not to run the meeting in Victoria and instead chose to run it in New South Wales, which doesn’t have the draconian measures that are in place in Victoria.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:29:52] Look, it is a problem; it is of concern. There is no question about that. I must say when I observe things in America, you know, I mean, my goodness, if someone like Donald Trump is the champion for freedom, then I think our society is really in a very serious situation because I think one could question what Donald Trump’s real motivations are. But given his lifelong career and his clear narcissism, I think that you know, I’m not one way or the other. I think both parties have their pluses and minuses.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:30:34] That’s actually a good question. Those are what my observation, you know, one, when Donald Trump just went into the office, actually, I didn’t really I felt like he wasn’t there when it was presidential. You know, I’ve never seen the president on social media multiple times. Yeah. But to tell you that the extreme leftists have really done a great job.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:30:56] Yes, they have done a hatchet job. They’ve done a hatchet job.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:30:59] Posting a lot of people. That includes myself.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:31:02] Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, no. And look, I mean, look what he said about hydroxychloroquine.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:31:09] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:31:09] And he was right. Yeah, yeah, he was right. And if hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin had been approved, then emergency use authorisation.., it would have all been over.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:31:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree with you. Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:31:22] Yeah. So I, you know, I think on the on that point, you know, I think that is a very, very significant point which we need to give him credit for.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:31:31] Yeah. You know, there are a lot of people also questioning Elon Musk’s true intentions by buy into it. I say, look, he’s much better than the people who have got the. Okay.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:31:42] That’s right. I mean, if we’re trying to protect what was. Then I don’t think that was worth protecting.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:31:48] Nobody is going to agree with me, and I don’t even agree with myself. So look at the major points. Compared to the leftists, you know, the extremist people. These are so much better. Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:32:02] No, no, no. I agree with you. I, I think the whole left-right polarisation, you know, I don’t know I don’t know what to believe anymore.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:32:12] Yeah. I said I don’t want to get involved in politics because in the House because I’m not a young guy, you know, I want me just someone to enjoy my own life, my innocent. But unfortunately, politics will not leave me alone.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:32:25] Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:32:25] They come to bother me. You know, I have to push. Oh, I have to push it back. So I’m involved in politics, you know? Yeah. So they come back to the, you know, the medical side about the diet, you know, you just alluded. So I guess you and I also agree on the low carb concept. You know, actually, for the last two years or so, I study basically pretty extensively on this dieting sheet.
Of course, I’ve been managing my clinic in the lifestyle management, you know, you know about weight loss, very low-calorie diet, low-calorie diet, you know, ketone diet, all these things. For the last two or three years, I’ve been reading a lot. But, you know, you probably were supposed to know about the book. The Carnivore Code?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:33:16] Paul Saladino?
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:33:18] And also, I’ve watched quite a few video presentations out on the ancestral diagnosis. Actually, I learnt quite a bit like what you just summarised earlier as of this podcast, that humans actually, for the majority of our human evolution time we will actually carnivores. We were animal eating.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:33:42] Look, you know, I mean I think the big step, the big step came when we started to introduce meat into our diet, because when you look at, for example, the apes, the chimpanzees, how much time they have to spend, and we only have 24 hours in a day, and we sleep for 8 hours. So you got to think about what goes on.
And these are called, in evolutionary terms, the time budget, how much time is spent hunting and gathering for nutrients. And so when we are in the you know, when you’re a chimpanzee or gorilla or what, you know, you are spending the best part of your day consuming very low, nutrient-dense foods. But if we can concentrate that into meat, then we have something that gives us more time to develop as a species.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:34:37] Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, actually, that’s very true. You know, also, you know, because as you get on the Orthomolecular boards like you may have seen me because I think I ask you to about the toxicity you send me a reference in the past, basically I begin to have this sort of feeling is that you know, simply the kind of Chinese philosophy like that. It’s not just Chinese, any culture, any culture. So basically, on the one side of the equation is the nutrition. On the other side, it is the anti-nutrients or the toxins.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:35:11] Yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:35:12] So along that sort of line and I’ve read quite a bit about the agriculture again coming back to, and chemical contamination glyphosate you know, the, you know, the typical example of this, you know, and also the processed foods, so many additives and so poor in you know through nutrients and so based are these actually I’ve been applying basically you know I think I told you I think I want to next time I want to if you don’t mind the invited to give a talk on this global picture. I think one time, didn’t you? Because we form the low-carb alliance in China.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:35:50] Yes. You invited me, and I did I think I did provide I we talked to I think it was called The Elephant in the Room.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:35:59] Yes.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:36:00] I called my talk The Elephant in the Room.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:36:02] That’s right. So basically that is critical because you, of course, I recommend I supply because also we do have our own nutrient supplements, you know because based on my own understanding, however, diet is you should be, and yes, the may just know someone because you can’t always be accurate. Yeah. And so I’m basically, you know, recommending different on a spectrum from like a keto diet to low carb and you depending on the health situation and so whatever they do.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:36:37] So actually, I have found that you know, recently you probably noticed we reported true cases of cardiovascular diseases being reversed. You know, another thing actually very critically, I’ve treated the more autoimmune diseases patients. A lot of people with skin rash because I found that that’s a category of diseases. Why? Because one picture is worth thousands of words. You don’t have to write a long article. Shown two pictures.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:37:05] Yep.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:37:07] Low card or VC, you know, I have a nickname. I’m called The Pope of VC Keto. That’s the English translation. Okay. Because I’ve been pairing for vitamin C and a ketogenic diet the way before everybody knows or hears about the ketogenic diet term, is it? A lot of my colleagues say you’re like a missioner, you’re like a future. So anyway, so what I’m saying is that was this spectrum looks like, you know, simply two pictures. You know psoriasis, eczema, even and I few all those skin rash two pictures before and after look up, you see. You know, of course, that’s more into it. But so what’s your experience in that?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:37:50] Well, I think your reference to the skin conditions, I mean, 80 or 90% of skin conditions are a reflection of digestion, poor digestion. And, you know, leaky gut is something that has been spoken about by naturopaths, nutritionists and integrative doctors for the last 30, 40, or so years. Now that it’s referred to as intestinal permeability, it is gained, you know, people are willing to acknowledge that extreme. Yeah.
And what’s interesting about carbs, well, look at the low carb world first because of all of the three macronutrients, proteins, fats and carbohydrates, there are essential amino acids. There are essential fatty acids. There are no essential carbohydrates. And so you know, whenever we look at a nutritional problem, we’re always shown processed food, hamburgers, chips, french fries, pizzas. I would argue that one of the biggest nutritional stressors was the food pyramid, which placed in carbohydrates and particularly grains as the foundation.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:39:06] So when people talk about low carb, you know, it means different things to different people. I mean, for example, Atkins, I think initially in the initial phase was about 20 grams of carbohydrate a day, which is very low carb and quite a challenge to maintain. And I know that he went up to about I think it was about 80 grams as a maintenance dose. And personally, I’ve always felt that around 70 to 80 grams of carbohydrates a day was sustainable in our modern world. You know, you still have to go out and live with your friends. You go out for dinner and accept dinner invitations. So I think that is, you know, the carbohydrate.
But when we get to leaky gut and when we get to autoimmune conditions, we also I know vegetables are always said they are the foundation of a diet, and I agree they are, but they don’t come without their risks. There are salicylates, phytates,s, oxalate, and FODMAPs nightshades. You know, vegetables. Vegetables are not everything they’re cracked up to be. They’re dangerous.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:40:16] Yeah, actually, you know, that’s the appearance here, you know, because I actually translated Paul Saladino’s The Carnival Code into Chinese.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:40:27] Right.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:40:28] I have a clinic for more than one person telling me that Dr Cheng, I believe everything you are saying. But ah they, they told me that’s a better one. I bought this book. Right. And I said that they said that I couldn’t really recommend to other fronts because they were saying you’re kind of extreme.
I realised, as I said, that the purpose of this book for me to introduce is not necessarily telling everybody to eat carnivore diets. I said What I want you to do, like what you just said, is that you need to realise actually vegetables, plants, they don’t come without their problems. Do not think meats are bad and plants are good either whatever you want that you may get into a lot of problems.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:41:08] Yes. Yes. Well, you know, I mean, plants can’t move. So they have to protect themselves, and they protect themselves from insects, animals and in the process from us, you know, so much so they’ve put out all of these things to protect themselves, and that is potentially toxic to humans and certainly in terms of intestinal permeability.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:41:34] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:41:34] Potentially a real problem. I think what’s interesting I mean, this is a whole philosophical argument about is carnivore a diet achievable for a planet of 7 billion people, seven and a half billion people? And I think that raises a whole lot of other issues. But I think to your point, Richard, and that is if someone was having some serious, you know, intractable diseases that they’ve tried everything for. They’ve been on the best whatever the best diet is, they’ve been on the best diet.
Well. Stop for a moment. Let’s eliminate vegetables, which not many dietary advice is, say, stop eating vegetables. And let’s go down the carnivore path for a month or two or three and regain our resilience and then slowly reintroduce and find that balance.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:42:28] I totally agree, actually. You know, the next thing I want to do is I want to summarise a few cases that I have pictured. And of course, I never report anything with all my pictures or lab evidence because, you know, empty words don’t mean much. But we do have actually quite a few cases, these pictures. Skin rash. I love these types of patients.
The thing is that for these people like you mentioned, I always tell them, look, let’s when we start, let’s start on a very strict programme. Twice, three months. And usually, I found that the more acute, the more severe, like a reddish, you know, like the burning. inflammation that this more serious like that, actually, the quicker they usually respond.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:43:15] Hmm.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:43:16] And I say, you know, you’re giving them I just basically eat a kind of diet. Yeah. And you have to. You have no choice, right? I’m not asking you to do the rest of your life. Start on this. Lots of antioxidants, once you resolve any improve and, you know, once you reach a certain level, you want to maintain, then you can play with it. When you do it, do it meticulously. Take notes.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:43:41] But I think this is an important point, too, Richard. And when we’re talking about carnivores, we’re talking about meat. Not all meat is equal. And, you know, and this is where I agree with vegans who feel that industrial meat production, you know, feedlots, battery hens, you know, pigs that are in confined space. You know, I agree. This is unconscionable. This is wrong ethically.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:44:11] I agree with you.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:44:12] But what is wrong for the animal is wrong for us, and it’s wrong for the planet. It’s not the resource that’s the problem, in this case, meat. It’s how the meat is managed. And if the meat is managed on a regenerative farm, then we have a totally different animal. Firstly, we have an animal living a very healthy and happy life and only has one bad day in its life.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:44:38] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:44:38] And you know, if we only had one bad day in our life, that would be pretty good. So, you know, the day they die is the worst day of their lives. But up until then, they live happy and healthy life. But importantly, their fat content is very different. You know, in nature, the proportion of, for example, omega three to omega six, inflammatory in and in pro-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory is in the order of 1 to 1 or 1 to 3 maybe.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:45:10] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:45:11] But in a feedlot animal, there is practically no omega three. It’s omega six, which is pro-inflammatory. So not all meat is the same. And I think that’s an important point philosophically as well as from a health perspective.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:45:28] Yeah, that’s actually what I want to remember because this is going on a year or two ago. I think you also provided some clues to my question again, because when I was seeking my way of understanding the toxin issue, basically right now, I sort of summarise that, you know, into Ian also contributed.
I believe, you know, quite a few people on that board. Is that to me, let’s say just simply, of course, it’s not often not clear, but a basically meat and the plants and I tried to do a comparison, I made it into a little table back but by the way, so to me the toxins in the plant-based foods, generally speaking, the sort of water-soluble and fat-soluble because plant foods usually are more, you know, less oily than meat, right? Of course, there are some oil, but not as much. So the charger is less considered is more of a hydrophilic, basically water-soluble.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:46:29] Ketogenic diet. Since we are you know, when we talk about ketogenic diet, carnival code diet, we generally maintained proteins should still maintain the restricted and not like, you know endless right and you know, I don’t really agree with the other like the high protein side of the diet, but a keto diet is more of the sect as energy. So basically, the toxin we deal with is more of a fat-soluble toxin. Somebody gave me the idea.
So when I start comparing basically, okay, we’ll just start comparing fat-soluble and water-soluble, and my conclusion is water-soluble because our body operates in the water, all chemical reactions in water and, therefore, water-soluble toxins tend to be more acute. If today it’s going to bother you. And they usually tend to get fractured away more quickly. Whereas fat-soluble well because it’s more it has to be released into the water to interact with the body molecules, whatever. And it may be a bit slower, more slowly released but tends to stay longer.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:47:39] Yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:47:39] Probably tend to be less aggressive. And also, I feel if we are eating more of like a fat-based or animal-based of diet, that’s the, you know, the animal has over the process of the toxic. I’m not saying the ketogenic diet or all meat-diet don’t have toxins. I’m not saying that at all. What I’m saying is that probably it has processed some of the toxins that also the toxin concentrated. It tends to be a little bit more on the fat-soluble side.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:48:12] Yeah. Well, this is another reason, Richard, why I think apart from the ethics of industrial animal agriculture, the actual health of the animal and the chemicals that are required to keep them healthy or at least live and marketable, let’s not call them healthy. Let’s call them alive and marketable. You know, that’s what we take on as well. And that’s another reason why. And it’s similar to plants, too. And I mentioned that you can make a plant look very good and take it to market with just three or four chemicals in a fertiliser. And it’s not nutrient-dense. And that is it looks good. It looks good in the supermarket shelf, but it’s not nutrient-dense.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:49:01] And that’s why, you know, it’s so interesting because in regenerative agriculture, there are five cycles that are acknowledged as being important. The first is the solar cycle, which is all about photosynthesis. The second is the water cycle, which means that water is absorbed into the soil. And the only way that can really happen is for the soil to have organic matter in it. But the third one is the soil mineral cycle, which is all about the relationship of the plant with the microbes and the mycorrhizal fungi in the soil. And the fourth cycle is biodiversity. Again, the more biodiverse, the better. And the fifth cycle is arguably the most important, and that is the human social cycle, which includes the farmer who makes the decisions about how the food is grown.
And you and I, as consumers, who decide which form of farming we’re going to support, and so that they are the five cycles which deliver us hopefully a nutrient-dense diet, be it meat that is not toxic or plants that are not subject to pesticides, herbicides, fungicides and not nutrient-dense. So, you know, this is why I think for us all to engage in how our food is grown is a really important issue.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:50:26] That’s a great point. How are you in… I mean, for example, I haven’t really known about this, but I haven’t been willing to do anything involving anything because I don’t know what to do. I mean, what’s your suggestion there?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:50:39] Yeah, well well, look, I think in America, the Weston A Price Foundation is an excellent, excellent in research.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:50:47] I followed that. Weston A Price?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:50:49] Yeah. And interestingly, see, Western Price went out in the 1920s and thirties to find out what caused the epidemic of tooth decay. And what he found was much more than that. And I would argue his research is arguably the most important research that’s ever been done in human nutrition because he took then in the 1920s diets from ancestral villages that were on ancestral diets. So they weren’t on a paleo diet.
They weren’t on a paleo diet. He went all around the world to North America, to the Andes, to Australia, to Polynesia, to the Swiss Highlands, to the Hebrides. And what he found and he came back with all different food samples, seafood, oats, dairy, rye bread, you know, you name it.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:51:43] And he looked at that. And the common denominator that he found in all those ancestral diets was, and this is the 1920s and thirties, so I’m not sure our nutrition is any better now than it was then.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:51:57] I think it’s worse.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:51:58] It’s worse. The soils are much worse conditions. The fertilisers are much higher in use. But then he found ten times the amount of water-soluble vitamins and minerals in ancestral diet to Western diet and four times the fat-soluble vitamins – A and D, and he called it activator X, but it was vitamin K and, of course, E, fat-soluble vitamins four times higher in ancestral diets. And the best source of those fat-soluble vitamins was animals raised in pasture.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:52:36] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:52:37] So so, you know, these things are really important. So if you’re asking me what’s the best, where’s the best place? I think the Weston A Price Foundation is an excellent place to start. I would also include in that the Savory Institute Allan Savory, who has written the book on holistic land management. And I had the privilege of interviewing Allan Savory, and I consider him to be one of my all-time heroes. And he said to me, and this was particularly important for soul.
He said, “Ron if you are expecting the change to come from above,” (and by that, I don’t think he was talking about God. I think he was talking about governments.) “You’re going to be waiting a long time. The change has to come from the ground up, from people like you and me and from organisations like the Orthomolecular News Service and the Weston A Price Foundation and the Savory Institute. You know, this is what has to be, and we need to engage. So I think Weston A Price and the Savoury Institute are two excellent places where I would start.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:53:41] Yeah, actually that’s a great idea because I realised through these last two years as well is that, you know, for example, writing papers, all these things I, I had this conversation with and you and saw, and then I realised, well let’s not waste time, you know, preaching to the death years, you know, no matter, you know, because I had received so many invitations to write more on vitamin C.
I said, look, those people are the ones who really, no matter how much you read now, you know, like you saw, there are 12 new clinical trials that showed that I will fix the effect of against COVID, but nobody is listening. Now you’re producing one more. Is there going to change? No. So let’s just talk to people who really want to hear.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:25] I agree.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:54:27] Ground-up.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:28] Yeah, I agree.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:54:30] I agree with you. You know, because the only place to go is, you know, talk to consumers directly. So I actually, you know, I’ve been, you know, I’ve been so busy all the Chinese times, and I try to go somewhere. But now I get to be more active on Twitter. On the English side is because, yes, it is trying to preach and send out information repeatedly.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:51] Yes. Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:54:53] Talking to the consumers, influencing one at a time. That’s all we can.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:54:56] Well, I think at the end of the day, Richard, you know, and you’ve been in practise probably for as long. I mean, I’ve been in practise for over 40 years now. And I’ve gone through…
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:55:07] Where most of you know. I was born in 1959.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:55:11] 59. Oh, I’ve got more years. I’m 55. 1955, not 55 years old. But my point is that in my early career, I became very evangelical about all sorts of things. At one stage, it was mercury amalgam in fillings. At another stage, it was the Weston A Price Foundation and nutrient-dense diets. And another stage it was whatever it was, you know. And what I’ve realised is that I just have to calm down a little bit. I have to find that balance in my own life between making a difference to those that want to hear it and not feeling offended or try to be evangelical to everybody. It’s not my responsibility.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:55:54] Absolutely, Ron. Actually, that’s what I learnt too because, over that particular last couple, it’s been going on maybe six, seven years. You know, I didn’t mean to actually to go to China to preach, just be a physician needed to my natural job to talk to my patients. All right. So, you know, most of us are pretty positive. So I just thought of them talking. Then I realise I’m at two different conferences.
Of course, a lot of people were even yesterday a little bit upset because there was another person try to promote Orthomolecular medicine about the incoming conference and one person, you know, quoting that the social media from like a quack watch or something about, you know, the Linus party.
I got a little mad, and I said, Hey, look. I see you reading that stuff. You probably don’t belong here. But a point I want to make is that I learnt along my years, and I am not going to argue with anybody about it anymore. I am only going to preach the message I believe. All right. You don’t agree? That’s fine with me.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:56:55] Yep, yep. Yeah. What I find most interesting, and I’ve said this to people in a public forum, I’ve said I’ve been surprised during this pandemic how many people have unwittingly become marketing and compliance officers for an industry that has repeatedly been found guilty of fraud, illegal marketing and literally costs tens of thousands and in some cases hundreds of thousands of lives.
And what’s so interesting about the quack watch is that you will never hear a quack watch draw your attention to anything that the pharmaceutical industry has been found guilty of. So, you know, take that for what it’s worth. I think it’s a part of the marketing branch of the pharmaceutical industry referred to as quack watch. I think it deserves as much respect as well, you know, perhaps like a bit of dog dirt on the ground. I don’t know.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:57:56] Yeah, yeah. Actually, you know, I tend to be the optimistic person like I’m…
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:58:03] We need that, Richard. We need optimism.
Dr Richard Cheng: [00:58:05] Yeah. What I’m saying, I do feel it is coming is that here, you know, is the Republican the MAGA Movement here in the States with the recent buyouts, because the extreme leftist party has really gone way too far. Even the model, you know, I’m sure you saw on Twitter of Elon Musk, you know, this diagram, you know, because I mean, I feel like I’m also I beginning to be I was probing the centre slightly to the right side, but it wasn’t that much I didn’t change.
I don’t think I change that. It’s also that they have gone too far. No, no. But my point is that I do feel, you know, is the social here in the United States is, again, probably going to influence the worldwide in democracy is that first of all, who is there to decide? I mean, who is this? What is disinformation, you know, about this truce, the bombing, the US government? Who are you to decide? I am. And right now, like I just you know, if it’s illegal. So. Right. Otherwise, leave it alone. Mm-hmm.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [00:59:17] Richard, I’m pleased to hear you say you’re optimistic because I’ve just been struck by how coordinated The Great Reset is. And The Great Reset is all about demonising meat lab-grown meat and controlling media. I mean, I think Robert Kennedy Junior’s book, The Real Anthony Fauci, was is an incredible document. And particularly when one reads the last chapter there, which outlines all of the games that were played leading up to this pandemic. I mean, we’re talking about one of the most impact, not one of the most, the most sophisticated business model in human history.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:00:02] Obviously happening, I think. Right. Because of all these things happen at the same time. It’s like a final showdown.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:00:08] Yes. Which you know, to your point about being an optimist. I’m glad to hear that.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:00:13] Yeah, I think this is what’s funny. Like I was talking to Tom yesterday about this is that I do feel, you know, of course, you know, beginning with first is that first of all, they had here in the United States, we have to make sure that the election system is not wrecked, is right so that in the future we can have more honest elections. Now, in order for that to happen, you got to have the majority in Congress. You know, right now, here in the United States Congress, you don’t hear much about these lawsuits right now because the Democrats are still controlling. And so let’s change that.
Once that happens, I’m pretty sure, including Fauci, because he’s the top representative of all the evil. You know, COVID aside. So investigations will be launched in all these, you know, so those senators, you know, these people. And also, on the social media site, we will I’m pretty sure we would handle it well. You know, so there are a lot of people will be starting investigating and correcting who is there to be the quart watch and the truth in a censoring who gave you the right to censor other people. Shut up.
You know, like you mentioned, you’d have hundreds of references. They don’t care. And with two studies you passed through, who gave you the standard? So I think, you know, that is coming. And here, the beauty I feel in the United States, at least, is that the more evil they did, the more mobilised the people. I mean, I wasn’t a political person. Of course, I’m always thank goodness. However, this really ended.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:01:54] Yes. So tell me, Richard, you’re in China. And I remember you giving a talk to ACNEM, to the Australasian College at the time, and you were talking about group-protected immunity. And you said… Is the message better received in China than it was in America? About vitamin C and an alternative?
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:02:17] I don’t have the percentage. I cannot say which is better. But I think at least about the people that know me.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:02:27] Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:02:28] I can. Let me put it this way. I suddenly find that I have a lot more followers. Not that suddenly over the past two years than before, both in China and also internationally as well. And these people mostly, believe me, what I say, you know, and of course, these this is still a minority, for example, in China. And fortunately, what’s happening in China is, you know, it is no longer a scientific discussion. No.
And you know what I’m talking about, actually, even some you know, because it’s so right now over there, it’s the really to some people on topics like nearly life and death struggle. See what I mean? Yeah, because it’s about, like you said, you’re having like the election. Over there, they’re having a turnover in about six months from now of the government of the top leader here.
And what’s going on the top leader didn’t want to leave, but other people were on the ground. And so this they only said it openly. This COVID 19 is no longer, I mean, they didn’t say no, but they were they said this is a political campaign. They said it out loud and clear. So it’s very clear.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:03:42] So the point I might make is that been actually I think all messages have been I’ve come through. Hmm. Including those people, for example, you know, COVID 19, I mean, high-dose vitamin C was incorporated in Shanghai, and I took what is including the chief director of the team knows me very well because I actually was [Inaudible 01:04:03] because of protocol.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:04:03] Yeah, I remember you reporting on that and I was so impressed that you embraced that in a hospital setting.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:04:09] Yeah. So basically, they got to the message they were, you know, one way or another, they were talking about these things over these past two years. I keep on whatever, you know, coming from the journals from particular, mostly from Orthomolecular medicine boards and publishing sending out, you know, telling them, you know, because I’m impressed with the amount of the data suddenly available over the last two years. Well, vitamin D, vitamin C, others. Right. Because it’s so clear. if you want to read it, this is good enough.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:04:42] And not just coming out of China, not just coming out of China, Richard, is it?
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:04:47] No, no, it’s not the Wuhan moment. Yeah. Yeah. So so, yes, I think that the message is getting out there. And unfortunately, in China, it’s, it’s more predictable than anything else.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:04:58] Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Oh, well, yeah. It’s interesting. We live in interesting times, but I’m pleased to hear you say you’re optimistic.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:05:09] Actually, seriously. In the United States, I guess. Um-hmm. Yeah. Basically this you have to see, you know, actually, you know, like going to Chinese. I telling them I said, of course, I cannot see criticise over there, but what I do is I comment on U.S. products because they couldn’t get me wrong. But you know, a lot of people know what I’m talking about, what you hear after all the I said of the United States, at least by the people on the surface, it is still a legal society. The bad guys.
They want to do things they have to hide. I sit here on the legal side, and we have to fix the legal signal first. You know, you have to have the majority in the House of Congress, one of the houses. But then I know that they’re going to do actually one of the videos that I was personally involved in is sent to Senator Johnson’s office as part of why, you know, for example, NIH knows about vitamin C. FDA knows.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:06:08] The NIH and the FDA. Yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:06:11] Yeah. Because my reporter at my seminar that I actually was sent over to a department of the HHS Human Services.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:06:21] So Richard. To that point, I mean the NHMRC in Australia, which is the National Health and Medical Research Council equivalent to your NIH, I think not equivalent. NIH is much bigger. And the FDA over there, the TGA over here. They have access to all of these studies.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:06:41] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:06:41] It has no traction at all.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:06:45] Yeah. Actually, you know, I’ve been working with the legal team based in London since June, actually, two years ago. Since June of 2020. Right. And so they have been compiling, very meticulously compiling, what happened in Shanghai. You know, I think they’ve gone beyond vitamin c but are using vitamin c as one example.
He said that you gave this presentation in Shanghai, incorporate vitamin C and also you gave a presentation at NIH. And then, I received an email from the department and the Assistant Secretary’s Office at the Department of Health and Human Services in the United States, asking me if it’s okay for him to forward my, you know, presentation to FDM CDC. I said, sure, please.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:07:30] I said, you know, because at that time, what I was thinking about is, let’s find a way to stop this. Right. But then nothing happened afterwards. But I said in your piece, it’s all in it. Anyway, long story short, coming back. Ask me what happened. I said nothing. And then I said, here are the emails and everything.
So actually, they were questioned, though, by the Freedom of Information Act. And so they and I responded quickly, sending the copies of our communication basically, the idea and look the information is over there is clear there’s more than likely if I get my message very clear. Vitamin C, abundant research, is very safe.
And as a physician, we don’t move on. No harm. Right. Very safe, inexpensive and effective for viral infections and may be effective for COVID 19. The question is, you have nothing better to do. You have no better treatment for COVID 19. Why in the world you don’t use vitamin C? Information is made available to NIH. CDC, FDA function. What do you do? That’s the biggest question they’re going to ask.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:08:41] Yes. And I hope criminal charges are brought to pass because they should be punished. I hope so.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:08:49] I hope so. I think it would. I do feel I have a strong sense because this is upsetting to many people. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:08:59] Yes.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:09:00] We will have a victory day, right?
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:09:03] I hope so, Richard. I hope so. Look, I’ve been just I’ve been humbled by being involved in this Orthoolecular service group. I usually just sit and watch and read because I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing you and many other members on the panel because I’m in awe of their knowledge. And but when I read this about three, I just thought, well, I know Abraham Hofer was big on B3. And this puts it into an evolutionary perspective that we may not have heard before.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:09:33] Yeah. Yes. Thank you very much. Actually, you know, coming back just the last minute, you know, you know, what I was seeing present was vitamin C and vitamin D actually, vitamin B3 seems to me has probably far more involvement in more these. You know, when I gave a talk on this thing, I summarised the basically research available if it involves more than 50% of all chemical reactions. Hmm. And I do that. I take four reps a day.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:10:04] Well, I’ve read that I’ve actually been. It’s incorporated into a supplement that I take, but I think it deserves attention on it.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:10:12] So yeah, I think people were asked if there’d be a one because I just took it. I do my dinner time because I exercise, you know, research shows that can basically stimulate a muscle grows, it promotes it increasesNAD+ some of the good stuff. And then I said, oh, oh, my purpose is to try to stay healthy and live longer. Yeah. Everything else comes second, you know? Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:10:36] But, you know, this is why food actually is if it’s well grown, is even better. And the reason I say that is because I did this great interview with Professor Fred Provenza, who wrote a wonderful book called Nourishment. And you know, it’s terrific he’s a terrific guy. And he said something which just kind of stuck in my mind. He said, “Ron, you know, the humble strawberry. The humble strawberry has 5000 active components. We don’t know what they all do, but they probably are really important. And that’s the beauty. That’s the beauty of food.”
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:11:17] Oh, yes.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:11:18] Food is that nature has spent millions of years in the laboratory, packaging it all up in a really nice way that we still haven’t worked out.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:11:28] Yeah. Actually, the bringing about nature has spanned the billions of years, you know, working up a system and for human rights, agriculture, 200 years. Right. And an ag industry changed everything.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:11:42] Absolutely everything. And that’s what these lab-grown meats are all about as well. I mean…
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:11:48] I’m scared of that.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:11:49] I’m scared of that, too. Yeah.
Dr Richard Cheng: [01:11:51] Yeah.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:11:54] Well, there it is. I wasn’t expecting this to be part of the Unstress podcast, but I thought it was a worthwhile conversation to share with you. And we will, of course, have links to the Orthomolecular News Service, which has a back catalogue of brilliant articles. So if you or if you’ve heard some so-called experts say there is insufficient evidence to support the use of vitamin C, D, zinc, and magnesium, what they really should be saying is they haven’t read it.
And when you start to realise, as was the theme on this podcast and will continue to be the illusion of evidence-based medicine, the science of medicine which is so dominated by the pharmaceutical industry, then you will start to realise that actually what we need to do is focus on a nutrient-dense diet, which is the point I made through this podcast.
Dr Ron Ehrlich: [01:12:48] Supplements are just supplements. They supplement and are nutrient-dense. Well, they supplement our diet. And if our diet was nutrient-dense, containing the 50 or 60 elements from the periodic table that the human body needs, that it contained the eight or nine essential amino acids that the body requires and can’t make itself. That’s why it’s called essential amino acids. And it also is a nutrient-dense diet made up of essential fatty acids as in omega-3 and omega-6, which the human body can’t make.
Then you start to realise what a nutrient-dense diet is all about. And that is a challenge because you need to be supporting farmers that are growing food in the soil, which can be nutrient-dense. And if that’s not possible, then supplementation has a role to play in our journey, and that is why it is called supplement, not food. But anyway, I will have links to the Orthomolecular News Service. I hope this finds you well. Until next time. This is Dr Ron Ehrlich. Be well.
This podcast provides general information and discussion about medicine, health, and related subjects. The content is not intended and should not be construed as medical advice or as a substitute for care by a qualified medical practitioner. If you or any other person has a medical concern, he or she should consult with an appropriately qualified medical practitioner. Guests who speak in this podcast express their own opinions, experiences, and conclusions.